> On 23 May 2019, at 10:35, Philip Thrift <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Thursday, May 23, 2019 at 3:03:01 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 22 May 2019, at 07:35, Samiya Illias <[email protected] <javascript:>> >> wrote: >> >> I have just read several messages on various threads in this list about God. >> I really don't know which one to answer to, nor do I wish to debate the >> subject. It is God to choose and guide whoever He wills; I can only keep my >> duty by sharing the ayaat of The Quran and the knowledge I learn therefrom. > > > I agree with you that God is the ultimate one guiding us, but God is not > “God”, and nobody on Earth can use its name for any temporal spiritual > living. It brings automatically the argument per authority, which is > catastrophically, especially on he fundamental research. > > > > Bruno > > > > You don't agree with J.-P. Sartre that "Existence precedes essence." We are > born existentialists, not "guided" by any God.
I use God in the (Neo)platonician sense. God is the ultimate truth/reality that we search, with some insight that it is bigger than us. Yet, with the digital mechanist hypothesis, the arithmetical truth is not distinguishable from God for the (finite) creature/machine/number, and a machine having stronger induction axioms can somehow study the theology of simpler machine, without necessarily lifting that theology on itself (which needs extra-caution, universal machine are confronted to a theological trap, and the wise machine remains silent on many “true” propositions). That is the original sense of “god” by those who invented theology, from which they extracted physics and mathematics as competing theory about the fundamental reality (to simplify things a little bit). > > Dissolving the "free will" question, G. Strawson just says "We have the > experience of freedom." That experience in and of itself is enough, > regardless of any God or physics or arithmetic. Yes, free-will is the experience of freedom, and above all, its possible personal exploitation, as free-will concerns acts, not just the phenomenological sensation associated with it. It happens when the machine leaves the cocoon of security (enumerable set of total computable functions, which always miss some total computable function) to insecurity or universality, where all total computable functions are available, but mixed in a highly non mechanical manner among the total computable. Free-will require universality, not Löbianity (universality + knowledge of one own universality). Nut to know we have free will, this require Löbianity. Löbinanity arise from Universality + enough strong mathematical induction axiom, like believing that if P is true for 0, and if it is true that P(n) -> p(n+1) then it has to be true for all n. For a platonist, God is what remain when you stop to believe in (ontological) physical universe. The traditional debate about God and Non-God is like an Aristotelian (weak materialist) trick to make us forget that the original debate of the greek theologian was about the existence of the physical universe, seen as primary, that is origin of all the rest (consciousness included). > > That experience we do know exists, except for the experience/consciousness > deniers. We all agree in this list that consciousness exist, and that we do know our experience. The problem is how to relate those experience with some reality that we are searching, or how to relate the experience and the observation, and what we can prove about this, and what is consistent with this or that theory, and how to test them. Your approach is unclear if eventually you will not be the one denying consciousness to a large variety of persons or entities, due to the fact that they would not have the genuine metaphysical stuff to support their soul. Bruno > > > @philipthrift > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/cbc5376d-b4c4-49db-80e1-608e4482fac3%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/cbc5376d-b4c4-49db-80e1-608e4482fac3%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2C09F39F-9613-4809-ABC3-6FCE04B6689F%40ulb.ac.be.
