> On 25 May 2019, at 03:34, Lawrence Crowell <[email protected]> > wrote: > > These passages you quote are thick. In fact reading the Koran became a chore > out of shear boredom with this. It is not so much horrifying, but damned > soporific. There are pages after page of this sort of thing, some with > descriptions of the various torments. Religion largely exists as a way to > control people and society.
It becomes like that when it is institutionalised and sacralised, with not new comments allowed (unlike the taoist and the jews). It is not much the institutionalisation, but the use of argument per authority, and that is made possible when we separate religion and science. Religion is just the search of truth, with the understanding that is big, which leads to modesty and the listening of all theories, and the discussion, etc. When someone claim he knows the truth, it becomes a tool to exploit fear through argument of violence. To claim that someone will go to hell if it does not obey to some humans (cling to represent God) is the worst act of terrorism possible. The love of god comes from the personal heart, never through order or command. > Orwell in his treatise on the social-psychology of authoritarian and > totalitarian power made this very clear; the police that controls people are > in their heads with thought-crime and crime-stop. This treatise was written > in fictional form titled 1984.In religion sin and the fear of consequences of > this are thought-crime and crime-stop. Yes, Orwell is vey lucid on all of this. Bruno > > LC > > On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 5:55:47 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > > On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 6:37 PM Lawrence Crowell <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > > > > > I read a translation of the Koran right after the 9/11 attacks. It is > > heavily marinated with eschatology with flames and suffering. In fact it is > > far more than what exists in the New Testament, which itself is pretty > > threatening along these lines. > > Sam Harris in his book "The End Of Faith" provides some interesting quotes > in that shows the tone you're talking about: > > "Open the Koran, which is perfect in its every syllable, and simply read it > with the eyes of faith. You will see how little compassion need be wasted on > those whom God himself is in the process of “mocking,” “cursing,” “shaming,” > “punishing,” “scourging,” “judging,” “burning,” “annihilating,” “not > forgiving,” and “not reprieving.” God, who is infinitely wise, has cursed the > infidels with their doubts. He prolongs their life and prosperity so that > they may continue heaping sin upon sin and all the more richly deserve the > torments that await them beyond the grave. In this light, the people who > died on September 11 were nothing more than fuel for the eternal fires of > God’s justice. To convey the relentlessness with which unbelievers are > vilified in the text of the Koran, I provide a long compilation of quotations > below, in order of their appearance in the text. This is what the Creator of > the universe apparently has on his mind (when he is not fussing with > gravitational constants and atomic weights): > > “It is the same whether or not you forewarn them [the unbelievers], they will > have no faith” (2:6). “God will mock them and keep them long in sin, > blundering blindly along” (2:15). A fire “whose fuel is men and stones” > awaits them (2:24). They will be “rewarded with disgrace in this world and > with grievous punishment on the Day of Resurrection” (2:85). “God’s curse be > upon the infidels!” (2:89). “They have incurred God’s most inexorable wrath. > An ignominious punishment awaits [them]” (2:90). “God is the enemy of the > unbelievers” (2:98). “The unbelievers among the People of the Book > [Christians and Jews], and the pagans, resent that any blessing should have > been sent down to you from your Lord” (2:105). “They shall be held up to > shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter” (2:114). “Those to > whom We [God] have given the Book, and who read it as it ought to be read, > truly believe in it; those that deny it shall assuredly be lost” (2:122). > “[We] shall let them live awhile, and then shall drag them to the scourge of > the Fire. Evil shall be their fate” (2:126). “The East and the West are > God’s. He guides whom He will to a straight path” (2:142). > > “Do not say that those slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, > but you are not aware of them” (2:154). “But the infidels who die unbelievers > shall incur the curse of God, the angels, and all men. Under it they shall > remain for ever; their punishment shall not be lightened, nor shall they be > reprieved” (2:162). “They shall sigh with remorse, but shall never come out > of the Fire” (2:168). “The unbelievers are like beasts which, call out to > them as one may, can hear nothing but a shout and a cry. Deaf, dumb, and > blind, they understand nothing” (2:172). “Theirs shall be a woeful > punishment” (2:175). “How steadfastly they seek the Fire! That is because God > has revealed the Book with truth; those that disagree about it are in extreme > schism” (2:176). “Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the > places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. . . . f > they attack you put them to the sword. Thus shall the unbelievers be > rewarded: but if they desist, God is forgiving and merciful. Fight against > them until idolatry is no more and God’s religion reigns supreme. But if they > desist, fight none except the evil-doers”(2:190–93). “Fighting is obligatory > for you, much as you dislike it. But you may hate a thing although it is good > for you, and love a thing although it is bad for you. God knows, but you know > not” (2:216). “They will not cease to fight against you until they force you > to renounce your faith—if they are able. But whoever of you recants and dies > an unbeliever, his works shall come to nothing in this world and in the world > to come. Such men shall be the tenants of Hell, wherein they shall abide > forever. Those that have embraced the Faith, and those that have fled their > land and fought for the cause of God, may hope for God’s mercy” (2:217–18). > “God does not guide the evil-doers” (2:258). “God does not guide the > unbelievers” (2:264). “The evil-doers shall have none to help them” (2:270). > “God gives guidance to whom He will” (2:272). > > Those that deny God’s revelations shall be sternly punished; God is mighty > and capable of revenge” (3:5). “As for the unbelievers, neither their riches > nor their children will in the least save them from God’s judgment. They > shall become fuel for the Fire” (3:10). “Say to the unbelievers: ‘You shall > be overthrown and driven into Hell—an evil resting place!’” (3:12). “The only > true faith in God’s sight is Islam. . . . He that denies God’s revelations > should know that swift is God’s reckoning” (3:19). “Let the believers not > make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful—he that does this > has nothing to hope for from God—except in self-defense” (3:28). “Believers, > do not make friends with any but your own people. They will spare no pains to > corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is evident from > what they utter with their mouths, but greater is the hatred which their > breasts conceal” (3:118). “If you have suffered a defeat, so did the enemy. > We alternate these vicissitudes among mankind so that God may know the true > believers and choose martyrs from among you (God does not love the > evil-doers); and that God may test the faithful and annihilate the infidels” > (3:140). > > “Believers, if you yield to the infidels they will drag you back to unbelief > and you will return headlong to perdition. . . . We will put terror into the > hearts of the unbelievers. . . . The Fire shall be their home” (3:149–51). > “Believers, do not follow the example of the infidels, who say of their > brothers when they meet death abroad or in battle: ‘Had they stayed with us > they would not have died, nor would they have been killed.’ God will cause > them to regret their words. . . . If you should die or be slain in the cause > of God, God’s forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the > riches they amass” (3:156). “Never think that those who were slain in the > cause of God are dead. They are alive, and well provided for by their Lord; > pleased with His gifts and rejoicing that those they left behind, who have > not yet joined them, have nothing to fear or to regret; rejoicing in God’s > grace and bounty. God will not deny the faithful their reward” (3:169). “Let > not the unbelievers think that We prolong their days for their own good. We > give them respite only so that they may commit more grievous sins. Shameful > punishment awaits them” (3:178). “Those that suffered persecution for My sake > and fought and were slain: I shall forgive them their sins and admit them to > gardens watered by running streams, as a reward from God; God holds the > richest recompense. Do not be deceived by the fortunes of the unbelievers in > the land. Their prosperity is brief. Hell shall be their home, a dismal > resting place” (3:195–96). > > “God has cursed them in their unbelief” (4:46). “God will not forgive those > who serve other gods besides Him; but He will forgive whom He will for other > sins. He that serves other gods besides God is guilty of a heinous sin. . . . > Consider those to whom a portion of the Scriptures was given. They believe in > idols and false gods and say of the infidels: ‘These are better guided than > the believers’” (4:50–51). “Those that deny Our revelation We will burn in > fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other > skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise” > (4:55–56). > > “Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels and those who were > given the Book before you, who have made of your religion a jest and a > pastime” (5:57). “That which is revealed to you from your Lord will surely > increase the wickedness and unbelief of many among them. We have stirred > among them enmity and hatred, which will endure till the Day of Resurrection” > (5:65). “God does not guide the unbelievers” (5:67). “That which is revealed > to you from your Lord will surely increase the wickedness and unbelief of > many among them. But do not grieve for the unbelievers” (5:69). “You see many > among them making friends with unbelievers. Evil is that to which their souls > prompt them. They have incurred the wrath of God and shall endure eternal > torment. . . . You will find that the most implacable of men in their enmity > to the faithful are the Jews and the pagans, and that the nearest in > affection to them are those who say: ‘We are Christians’” (5:80–82). “[T]hose > that disbelieve and deny Our revelations shall become the inmates of Hell” > (5:86). > > “[T]hey deny the truth when it is declared to them: but they shall learn the > consequences of their scorn” (6:5). “We had made them more powerful in the > land than yourselves [the Meccans], sent down for them abundant water from > the sky and gave them rivers that rolled at their feet. Yet because they > sinned We destroyed them all and raised up other generations after them. If > We sent down to you a Book inscribed on real parchment and they touched it > with their own hands, the unbelievers would still assert: ‘This is but plain > sorcery.’ They ask: ‘Why has no angel been sent down to him [Muhammad]?’ If > We had sent down an angel, their fate would have been sealed and they would > have never been reprieved” (6:5–8). “Who is more wicked than the man who > invents falsehoods about God or denies His revelations?” (6:21). “Some of > them listen to you. But We have cast veils over their hearts and made them > hard of hearing lest they understand your words. They will believe in none of > Our signs, even if they see them one and all. When they come to argue with > you the unbelievers say: ‘This is nothing but old fictitious tales.’ They > forbid it and depart from it. They ruin none but themselves, though they do > not perceive it. If you could see them when they are set before the Fire! > They will say: ‘Would that we could return! Then we would not deny the > revelations of our Lord and would be true believers’ (6:23–27). “But if they > were sent back, they would return to that which they have been forbidden. > They are liars all” (6:29). “Had God pleased He would have given them > guidance, one and all” (6:35). > > “Deaf and dumb are those that deny Our revelations: they blunder about in > darkness. God confounds whom He will, and guides to a straight path whom He > pleases.” (6:39) “[T]heir hearts were hardened, and Satan made their deeds > seem fair to them. And when they had clean forgotten Our admonition We > granted them all that they desired; but just as they were rejoicing in what > they were given, We suddenly smote them and they were plunged into utter > despair. Thus were the evil-doers annihilated. Praise be to God, Lord of the > Universe!” (6:43–45). “[T]hose that deny Our revelations shall be punished > for their misdeeds” (6:49). “Such are those that are damned by their own > sins. They shall drink scalding water and be sternly punished for their > unbelief” (6:70). “Could you but see the wrongdoers when death overwhelms > them! With hands out-stretched, the angels will say: ‘Yield up your souls. > You shall be rewarded with the scourge of shame this day, for you have said > of God what is untrue and scorned His revelations” (6:93). > > “Avoid the pagans. Had God pleased, they would not have worshipped idols. . . > . We will turn away their hearts and eyes from the Truth since they refused > to believe in it at first. We will let them blunder about in their > wrongdoing. If We sent the angels down to them, and caused the dead to speak > to them, . . . and ranged all things in front of them, they would still not > believe, unless God willed otherwise. . . . Thus have We assigned for every > prophet an enemy: the devils among men and jinn, who inspire each other with > vain and varnished false- hoods. But had your Lord pleased, they would not > have done so. Therefore leave them to their own inventions, so that the > hearts of those who have no faith in the life to come may be inclined to what > they say and, being pleased, persist in their sinful ways” (6:107–12). “The > devils will teach their votaries to argue with you. If you obey them you > shall yourselves become idolaters. . . . God will humiliate the transgressors > and mete out to them a grievous punishment for their scheming” (6:121–25). > “If God wills to guide a man, He opens his bosom to Islam. But if he pleases > to confound him, He makes his bosom small and narrow as though he were > climbing up to heaven. Thus shall God lay the scourge on the unbelievers” > (6:125). > > John K Clark > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/fda12ba1-7847-4b55-9b74-8d040dad7ec2%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/fda12ba1-7847-4b55-9b74-8d040dad7ec2%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/6BD52C43-82F3-4612-AFAA-F0026AC301CA%40ulb.ac.be.
