> On 3 Jun 2019, at 16:21, Lawrence Crowell <[email protected]> > wrote: > > On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 6:01:05 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 3 Jun 2019, at 04:59, Samiya Illias <[email protected] <javascript:>> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 02-Jun-2019, at 11:38 PM, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >> <[email protected] <javascript:>> wrote: >> >>>> Here the materialist often fails, as they talk like if they knew primitive >>>> matter exists, >>> >>> A straw man. Nothing I wrote referred to primitive matter. >> >> The Quran does mention the existence of something before and beyond the >> ‘universe/ cosmos/ space’ we live in. This may be of interest: >> https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2019/01/space-before-and-beyond.html >> <https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2019/01/space-before-and-beyond.html> >> > > That is still rather Aristotelian. The first half of the Quran is better than > that, it contains the just reference to Judaism, and you can feel the > openness to neoplatonism, where indeed there was something deeper than the > physical reality at play at the origine of the physical reality (the how and > why being indeed addressed in the Quran). > The second half of the Quran is more problematic, and in my opinion, not > written by the same people, or something happened to them. It is problematic > both on the metaphysical level, but also on the ethical level, doubly so if > it is taken literally (as it contains basic hate speech toward non-muslims, > especially the jews, even some call for murdering some people, or sentences > which can be interpreted easily that way). > > There are the Mecca and Medina portions of the Koran. The Mecca Koran is the > start, at least chronologically, and some of it reads a bit like Psalms and > Proverbs. As the story goes Muhammad wrote this in Mecca, but was later > thrown out. The second portion is presumed to be written by Muhammad in > Medina, and there he was piqued to say the least. This part of the Koran is > pretty sharp edged with eschatology. Some think these two parts were written > by different people, though saying that publicly in parts of the Islamic > world will get your head served on a platter.
Unfortunately, just being a christian is enough for that in many Islamic countries. We have resist and partially win the battle for separating state and church, and our political correctness makes many of us tolerating the intolerable, and cutting the branch on which we stand. Thank you for confirming my feeling after a personal reading of the Quran. The problem is not Islam, but the fact that since Al Gazhali, Islam has confined itself in literalism, which is frightening concerning the second part of the Quran, and the practical implementations of that religious oppression in many countries which called themselves islamic. Before Al Ghazali, the muslims translated the greek, made progress in science, and, “thanks to the fanaticism” will make all this flying away in Europa, leading to the Renaissance (still not transformed due to the (understandable after so many years of religious oppression) confusion between religion and anti-science). Theology has to come back at the academy of science, because like free-will need determinacy, liberty needs rigour. Bruno > > LC > > > That is obviously even aggravated by the fact that many muslims do kill many > people today, and this by invoking Allah. The media seems to skip this, but > there is an actual genocide of christians in many muslims countries, and they > refer to the Quran and even worst Hadith. > > The canonical theology of the machine (the Solovay logic G*) explains why > theology, even as a science, contains a trap. It shows that the frontier > between Enlightenment and madness is very thin.That is wise, in the ideal > world of the self-referentially correct machine, the wise say mute and trust > the big-one-who-has-no-name to make any religious advertising. Allah is being > name and words, and religious text can help when not taken literally, and > becomes a source of burdens and suffering when taken literally. > > G* proves <>[]f (the consistency of inconsistency) > > G proves <>t -> <>[]f (if I am consistent then it is consistent that I am > inconsistent, if I am not mad, then it is possible that I am mad). > > With Mechanism, the closer to Allah you are, the more modest and openminded > you become. > > Bruno > > > > >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/5FA9BBDF-1EAB-46A1-9270-0C9935CA13EF%40gmail.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/5FA9BBDF-1EAB-46A1-9270-0C9935CA13EF%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/8101562c-6412-4180-b274-aeacdcc3f646%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/8101562c-6412-4180-b274-aeacdcc3f646%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/F8270391-C3A3-4CF9-AD48-F88B4F89A2DF%40ulb.ac.be.
