On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 9:51:50 AM UTC+2, Bruce wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 5:30 PM Bruno Marchal <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > >> On 31 May 2019, at 20:50, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < >> [email protected] <javascript:>> wrote: >> >> On 5/31/2019 1:33 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> No. The early definition of Earth was a flat surface, and people believed >> this by ostentation. >> >> >> Now you're just twisting words. Ostensive definition is by pointing. >> One can't believe a proposition by ostentation. >> >> >> Semantic play. If you are right, then we cannot believe that ostensive >> definition makes sense. >> >> >> >> Fundamental, primitive … means “has to be assumed”. >> >> We believe that he principle X is fundamental or primitive if we believe >> that it cannot be recovered from other principle. >> >> Physicalism assumes that some physical principle have to be assumed to >> get a physical reality, like vitalism assumed that some aspect of life >> cannot be recovered, even in principle, by another science like chemistry >> or physics. >> >> I guess you agree that vitalism is abandoned, and that most scientist >> accept that biology can be reduced to quantum mechanics, even if only in >> principle. >> >> With mechanism, the same occurs for the physical reality. It is explain, >> in principle, by very elementary arithmetic. >> >> When interested in fundamental studies, that is part of the subject: what >> are the simple principles that we have to assume to explain the whole >> picture. >> > > And accepting some set of fundamental principles is just to adopt a > hypothesis -- not necessarily an act of faith. Faith, characteristically, > enters when we stake our life on something. So your "mechanism" is very > much an act of faith, since it requires staking your life on the knowledge > and skill of the Dr. But physicalism is not an act of faith, because our > life in no way depends on whether we adopt that hypothesis or not. > >> "His mechanism" - you're being way too generous for speculative personal mathematical philosophy. As if, merely by manipulating any/every conversation towards his bag of rhetorical flourishes, this week "comp", next week "mechanism", next week "machines", then "universal numbers", he secured a tenable description of the origin of reality. With infinite explanations and confessions as to what cannot be explained, while you're offered a privileged place in the correction of the history of science, right? Consider the discursive attempts to domesticate you, including the artificial politeness that never truly listens, learns, or respects peers; that would and does defame each and every one of you in the blink of an eye, if it could advance its own agenda of aimlessly misguided infinite influence. It is our answers that these discourses feed on, that grant them legitimacy. In most moderated settings, such posting gets folks kicked out. Free lists by all means - but most folks can't defend or handle such freedom and the proof is we have perpetual brainwashing of discourse under the guise of public education, or social media etc.
So much intolerance, yes even on this list, and so much liberal understanding for it in "open mind" fashion. Too weak, too slow, too helpless. Take a look at the world around us and all the attempts of media/politicians to domesticate the discourses of children that have no sense of values, checks and balances, craving juvenile power and influence as ends in themselves. Imho we've been way too lenient with the conspiracy crowd, with the alternative facts crowds, the religious freaks, their constant conspiracy-theory-like victimization discourses that purport to explain everything without convincing evidence, which they all find explanations for! The foreigners, the other religions, realists, those guys over there, the physicalists because... You can't domesticate animals. Even when they come dressed as polite scientists or clean, strong men. They are neither democrats, nor scientists. PGC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/33e1a4c0-71da-4c15-8360-356880f2ba57%40googlegroups.com.
