> On 2 Sep 2019, at 02:22, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 9/1/2019 4:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 1 Sep 2019, at 02:51, spudboy100 via Everything List >>> <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> This, I like Bruno. For me(not you!) T >>> Proselytism is a symptom of lack of trust in “God"’s power (In advertising >>> notably). >>> The Boltzmann Brain conjecture, as to the Universe & God, to my mind, the >>> same, seems workable as anything else in cosmology. Because I like it >>> doesn't make it true, but the hypothesis does make it a bit for fun (for >>> me). In my imagination,. I feel it's a good idea to tap God on the shoulder >>> and ask our questions, politely, How'd you do this? How'd you do that? >>> More, specifically, how do you store information? >> >> >> Of course, the Boltzmann brain conjecture is simply a theorem in elementary >> arithmetic, once we work in the Mechanist frame. The simple UD program >> >> For all i, j, s, computes the s first steps of phi_i(j) >> >> Generates all information and stores it at all the relevant place, always in >> number. In particular, this generates all Boltzmann bBrains, in fact all >> Brains, digital machines, universal numbers. > > The problem is not to generate them or to show why they aren't generated. > It's to explain why we aren't, with probability 1, Boltzmann brains.
Good point. That is close to the formulation of the mind body problem. And the tools to answer this is given by the theology of the self-referentially correct machine, and the answer already suggested is .. quantum logics/mechanics. Incompleteness restrains a lot the type of computations on which consciousness can stabilise. The problem is that many introduce here ontological commitment, which usually introduced a selection without explain how such section is possible. It is like the reduction of the wave packet. It is a choice which is not available when we assume that consciousness is invariant for the doctor substitution. Bruno > > Brent > >> >> For example, you can store the registers (a, b, c, d, e, f) where a, b, c, >> are numbers coding already some informations, in the number >> (2^a)(3^b)(5^c)(7^d)(11^e)(13^f). >> >> Then the fundamental theorem of arithmetic (the uniqueness of the ordered >> decomposition into power of prime factors) guarantied that you can, by >> elementary addition and multiplication retrieve the information in the >> relevant context. >> >> So, information is stored n the numbers themselves, when we encode the >> program in elementary arithmetic. >> >> Bruno >> >> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bruno Marchal <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> To: everything-list <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> Sent: Sat, Aug 31, 2019 12:43 pm >>> Subject: Re: Quantum Foam >>> >>> >>>> On 29 Aug 2019, at 04:46, Samiya Illias <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> فَاذْكُرُونِي أَذْكُرْكُمْ وَاشْكُرُوا لِي وَلَا تَكْفُرُونِ >>>> >>>> So remember Me, I will remember you and be grateful to Me and (do) not >>>> (be) ungrateful to Me. >>>> [Al-Quran 2:152 <https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/2/152/>] >>>> >>>> The Quran does not discourage the HOW questions, rather it encourages >>>> humans to ponder upon the creation, but it emphasises the WHY questions. >>> >>> That makes sense. Unfortunately some read the Quran literally, which is >>> non-sensical. >>> >>> >>>> God does not need our help in creating, sustaining, destroying or >>>> recreating everything. >>> >>> >>> You can't know this for sure. >>> >>> Also, “Our help” might be ambiguous. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> What He wants from us is realisation and acknowledgement for all He has >>>> done, and is continuously doing, and to realise that there is great >>>> purpose in all of this. >>>> >>>> The Quran, like The Bible, gives us insights about Allah, but at the same >>>> time informs us that God is not like anything else. So we cannot imagine >>>> or compare God with anything. >>> >>> …including a person a priori. But this might be the reason why “God" has >>> truly no name, and that we have to be cautious when using some “nicname”, >>> “parabola" and “images” or “words". >>> >>> The danger is obvious. Any claim of “knowing "God” transform the discourse >>> into an authoritative argument, which concerning the divine, leads to the >>> worst case scenario. It prevents people of just *perhaps* approaching >>> “God", and it can make people repeating propositions without genuine inner >>> understanding for long period. >>> >>> Proselytism is a symptom of lack of trust in “God"’s power (In advertising >>> notably). >>> >>> There is truly no intermediate between a subject and the big one which has >>> no name. >>> >>> Text are ladders, but should be left behind eventually.(The more we >>> understand our ignorance, and works its mathematical structure). >>> >>> I don’t know if any of this is true, but it is already said by the sound >>> (Löbian) Universal Machine, using reasonable definition of “believe”, >>> “know”, etc. It also follows informally, arguably, from the mechanist >>> hypothesis. >>> >>> The Muslims and the Christians have already had Neoplatonist periods, like >>> with the Islamic Golden Age. I do think that this is still alive in our >>> heart. >>> But today, many schools get agressive. That signals many con men around. >>> >>> Bruno >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> We can only have an idea... I have tried to explore some of these ayaat in >>>> a series of posts, which might be of interest to you: >>>> https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/p/allah.html >>>> <https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/p/allah.html> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 3:59 AM spudboy100 via Everything List >>>> <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> You need to answer the How questions of physics, before you can properly >>>> look at the Why questions of religion (yours), and philosophy. One >>>> possibility that I find compelling (and it is never a complete answer) is >>>> that God is a Boltzmann Brain, and the Universe might be, in some fashion >>>> that particular a Boltzmann Brain. Most here on this mailing group >>>> despises this notion, (which is ok by me!). >>>> >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain >>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain> >>>> >>>> In 2004, a German physicist, Andreas Albrecht, reviewed the Boltzmann >>>> equations and sort of pondered this, a bit. >>>> >>>> http://albrecht.ucdavis.edu/special-topics/inflation-arrow-time >>>> <http://albrecht.ucdavis.edu/special-topics/inflation-arrow-time> >>>> >>>> A couple of years before, the Yahoodi physicist, Leonard Susskind had also >>>> looked at this possibility. >>>> >>>> https://events.stanford.edu/events/138/13871/ >>>> <https://events.stanford.edu/events/138/13871/> >>>> >>>> Neither of these guys turned religious at all, but their speculations >>>> still stands. It makes as much sense as the conventional models of the >>>> cosmos, and yield the added, benefit, of suspecting in all this emptiness >>>> (apparently) that there's a Big Mind out there. Maybe God is akin to a >>>> computer operating system, compared to us microbes? For me, it's sort of >>>> inspiring. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Samiya Illias <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> To: everything-list <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> Sent: Wed, Aug 28, 2019 12:15 am >>>> Subject: Re: Quantum Foam >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 28-Aug-2019, at 9:01 AM, Philip Thrift <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 5:55:36 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I came across a good article that is apposite to the discussion in this >>>>> thread. Arnold Neumaier has an article on virtual particles at: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.physicsforums.com/ insights/vacuum-fluctuation- myth/ >>>>> <https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/vacuum-fluctuation-myth/> >>>>> >>>>> where he looks at the origin of much of the common mythology surrounding >>>>> the idea of vacuum fluctuations and virtual particles. People should read >>>>> this and take the lessons to heart -- all of this mythology arose from >>>>> well-meaning, but ultimately mis-guided, attempts to explain the >>>>> mysteries of quantum mechanics to lay people. The result was enduring >>>>> confusion, that now affects even professional physicists. >>>>> >>>>> Bruce >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Very interesting fellow. Interesting article. I was intrigued reading the >>>>> link there to his biography of himself being math to applied math ending >>>>> up in computing and dabbling in physics. Sounded like me! >>>>> >>>>> Then >>>>> >>>>> Two years after my Ph.D., my formerly atheistic world view changed and I >>>>> became a Christian. I got convinced that there is a very powerful God >>>>> <http://www.mat.univie.ac.at/~neum/sciandf/eng/arms.html> who created the >>>>> Universe, who controls what appears to us as chance, and who is >>>>> interested in each of us individually. I understood (with Galilei, and >>>>> later Newton and Maxwell) that God had written the book of nature in the >>>>> language of mathematics. As a result of these insights, one of my life >>>>> goals became to understand all the important applications of mathematics >>>>> in other fields of science, engineering, and ordinary life. It is a >>>>> challenge that keeps me learning all my life. >>>>> >>>>> https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/interview-mathematician-physicist-arnold-neumaier/ >>>>> >>>>> <https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/interview-mathematician-physicist-arnold-neumaier/> >>>>> >>>>> @philipthrift >>>> >>>> I pray may Allah bless you with faith. He has already blessed you with >>>> much knowledge and understanding. >>>> May He choose you to serve Him with reverence. >>>> >>>> Samiya >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/12e6f2d4-d437-41c6-8cfb-2aa6887a7de3%40googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/12e6f2d4-d437-41c6-8cfb-2aa6887a7de3%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2088B473-5B71-4322-91E5-AC23E748E8B6%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2088B473-5B71-4322-91E5-AC23E748E8B6%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/681292908.79363.1567033180287%40mail.yahoo.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/681292908.79363.1567033180287%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CANgFmkGBAtqsMFGoOSBgB2Rkx0fdvM5SEt_TzWcbbEhZ-89dWw%40mail.gmail.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CANgFmkGBAtqsMFGoOSBgB2Rkx0fdvM5SEt_TzWcbbEhZ-89dWw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/DB85ACC1-9E2B-48FF-BC47-254A6FDA9D0E%40ulb.ac.be >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/DB85ACC1-9E2B-48FF-BC47-254A6FDA9D0E%40ulb.ac.be?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/490049935.901804.1567299096181%40mail.yahoo.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/490049935.901804.1567299096181%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/95261476-CB6A-427B-A640-63510ECDF20C%40ulb.ac.be >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/95261476-CB6A-427B-A640-63510ECDF20C%40ulb.ac.be?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ed805bad-e66b-c622-c6d7-6a6c0d9936d0%40verizon.net > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ed805bad-e66b-c622-c6d7-6a6c0d9936d0%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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