> On 13 Sep 2019, at 23:25, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 9/13/2019 4:02 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 12 Sep 2019, at 06:52, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/11/2019 9:33 PM, Tomasz Rola wrote: >>>> On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 10:43:40AM -0700, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything >>>> List wrote: >>>>> On 9/9/2019 10:16 PM, Tomasz Rola wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, Sep 09, 2019 at 07:34:19PM -0700, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything >>>>>> List wrote: >>>>>>> On 9/9/2019 6:55 PM, Tomasz Rola wrote: >>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 09, 2019 at 06:40:44PM -0700, 'Brent Meeker' via >>>>>>>> Everything List wrote: >>>>>>>>> Why escape to space when there a lots of resources here? An AI with >>>>>>>>> access to everything connected to the internet shouldn't have any >>>>>>>>> trouble taking control of the Earth. >>>> [...] >>>> >>>> You reason like human - "I will stay here because it is nice and I can >>>> have internet". >>>> >>>> [...] >>>>> Cooperation is one of our most important survival strategies. Lone >>>>> human beings are food for vultures. >>>>> >>>>> Humans in tribes rule the world. >>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>> This is just one of those godlike delusions I have written >>>> about. Either this or you can name even one such tribe. Hint: explain >>>> how many earthquakes and volcanic eruptions those rulers have >>>> prevented during last decade. >>> I only meant relative to other sentient beings. Of course no one has >>> changed the speed of light either and neither will a super-AI. My point is >>> that cooperation is an inherent trait of humans, selected by evolution. >>> But an AI will not necessarily have that trait. >> There is not total (everywhere defined) universal Turing machine, so they >> are born with a conflict between security (limiting itself to a subset of >> the total recursive functions) and liberty/universality (getting all total >> computable function, but then also some strictly partial one, and never >> being able to know that in advance). >> That explain why the universal machine are never satisfied, and evolves, in >> a escaping forward sort of way. Cooperation and evolution is inevitable in >> the setting. > > Cooperation with who?
In between the universal machines. > and at what cost? The risk of loosing our universality/liberty, like when being exploited. That can lead to the apparition of a new universal machine, like when cells cooperate in a multicellular organism, many will specialise in one task, like a muscular cells, or a digestive cells, or a neurone etc. They remain universal, but can no more exercise their universality. But the new organism will be able to do that, soon or later. > That's like saying our cooperation with cattle is inevitable. It is a very particular case, but it was probably inevitable, although this form of cooperation is more like exploitation. The cattle does not benefit much when “cooperating" with humans, nor do the aphids when used by ants for they “honey”. Well, they do get some protection from predators, like the cattle get some protection from the wolves. >> >> >> >> >>>> [...] >>>>>> nice air of being godlike. Again, I guess AI will have no need for >>>>>> feeling like this, or not much of feelings at all. Feeling is >>>>>> adversarial to judgement. >>>>> I disagree. Feeling is just the mark of value, and values are >>>>> necessary for judgement, at least any judgment of what action to >>>>> take. >>>> I disagree. I can easily give something a value without feeling about >>>> it. Example: gold is just a yellow metal. I know other people value it >>>> a lot, so I might preserve it for trading, but it does not make very >>>> good knives. Highly impractical in the woods or for plowing >>>> fields. But it might be used for catching fish, perhaps. They seem to >>>> like swallowing little blinking things attached to a hook. >>> I was referring to fundamental values. Of course many things, like gold >>> and fish hooks, have instrumental value which derive from there usefulness >>> in satisfying fundamental values, the ones that correlate with feelings. >>> If the AI has no fundamental values, it will have no instrumental ones too. >> It will have all of this with simple universal goal, like “help yourself”, >> or “do whatever it takes to survive”. > > Why would it even have a simple goal like "survive”? It is a short code which makes the organism better for eating and avoiding being eaten. > And to help yourself is saying no more that it will have some fundamental > goal...otherwise there's no distinction between "help" and "hurt”. It helps to eat, it hurts to be eaten. It is the basic idea. Bruno > > Brent > >> That can be expressed through small codes (genetic, or not). The probability >> that such code appears on Earth might still be very low, making us rare in >> the local physical reality, even if provably infinitely numerous in the >> global arithmetical reality. >> >> Bruno > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b212022f-9313-a6c3-6309-61ab0719fd9a%40verizon.net. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/9467A384-4852-4EE9-8E5C-9ED6170EDE2B%40ulb.ac.be.
