> On 16 Sep 2019, at 21:56, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 9/16/2019 4:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 16 Sep 2019, at 06:59, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/15/2019 5:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>>> Why would it even have a simple goal like "survive”? >>>> It is a short code which makes the organism better for eating and avoiding >>>> being eaten. >>> >>> An organism needs to eat and avoid being eaten because that what evolution >>> selects. AIs don't evolve by natural selection. >> >> A monist who embed the subject in the object will not take the difference >> between artificial and natural too much seriously, as that difference is >> artificial, and thus natural for entities developing super-ego. >> >> Machines and AI does develop by natural/artificial selection, notably >> through economical pressure. The computers need to “earn their life”, by >> doing some work for us. It is only one loop more in the evolution process. >> That is not new. Jacques Lafitte wrote a book in 1911 (published in 1930) >> where he argues that the development of machine is a collateral development >> of humanity, and that this is the continuation of evolution. > > You are just muddling the point. Computers don't evolve by random variation > with descent and natural (or artificial selection). They evolve to satisfy > us. As such they do not need, and therefore won't have, motives to eat or be > eaten or to reproduce...unless we provide them or we allow them to develop by > random variation.
Like with genetical algorithm, but that is implementation details.As I said, the difference between artificial and natural is artificial. Even the species does not evolve just by random variation. Already in bacteria, some genes provoke mutation, and some meta-programming is at play at the biological level. Bruno > >> >> >> >> >>> >>>> >>>>> And to help yourself is saying no more that it will have some fundamental >>>>> goal...otherwise there's no distinction between "help" and "hurt”. >>>> It helps to eat, it hurts to be eaten. It is the basic idea. >>> >>> For "helps" and "hurts" what? Successful replication? >> >> >> No. Happiness. The goal is happiness. We forget this because some bandits >> have brainwashed us with the idea that happiness is a sin (to steal our >> money). >> The goal is happiness, serenity, contemplation, pleasure, joy, … and >> recognising ourselves in as many others as possible. To find unity in the >> many, and the many in unity. > > Happiness is also rising above others and discovering new things they don't > know, conquering new realms. Many different things make people happy, at > least temporarily. So how do you know there is some "fundamental goal". > Darwinian evolution is a theory within which you can prove that reproduction > will be a fundamental goal of most creatures. But that proof doesn't work > for manufactured objects. > > Brent > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/bb6bc396-42ca-4245-45a9-6a93bc4ad5de%40verizon.net > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/bb6bc396-42ca-4245-45a9-6a93bc4ad5de%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CCA3D41C-F2A9-456C-9545-AE753FE7B5BF%40ulb.ac.be.
