> On 15 Oct 2019, at 00:22, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 10/14/2019 2:50 PM, John Clark wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 4:05 PM 'Brent Meeker' >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> wrote: >> >> >> It's not assumed its concluded based on overwhelming experimental evidence >> >> > But in the theory that's just adding the Born rule on empirical evidence. >> >> In physics empirical evidence is the only reason you add anything. > > But then MWI can't claim to be simpler and "purer" than CI.
MWI, that is NON-collapse, is “purer” in the sense that it does not invoke another theory to explain measurement, except mechanism and its “trivial” first person indeterminacy. Then the real problem is that it has to extract the wave itself from arithmetic, given that arithmetic realise all computations (including all quantum computations). We have to explain why the quantum computation win the “measure battle”, and the logic of self-reference suggest in a precise and testable way how this happens. Bruno > >> >> > For the same reason it implies that only one world is realized. >> >> How does the empirical evidence from the 2 slit experiment imply there is >> only one world? >> >> > Given unitary evolut Probability can be conserved just by renormalizing as >> > in CI, whatever the rule. >> >> But given the fact that the Schrodinger Equation is 100% deterministic what >> is the physical reason we must deal with probabilities at all? MWI can help >> us understand why. >> >> >> If you ask "probabilities of what?" in MWI the answer can't be >> >> probability of existing because MWI has committed to all solutions >> >> > But it can be the probability that something similar to me as I am right >> > now will see Moscow in one second, I say "similar" because the me that >> > might see Moscow in one second would not be exactly the same as the me of >> > right now because that me would see Moscow and I don't right now. >> >> > OK, how similar does that something have to be. >> >> 42. How similar does Moscow have to be to be counted as Moscow? >> >> > Does it have to be conscious? >> >> NO! >> >> >> I'll be damned if i can see what consciousness has to do with it. The >> >> Born rule would also give the probability a film camera with a automatic >> >> one second timer will take a picture that when developed will turn out to >> >> be a picture of Moscow. >> >> > But according to MWI it will also take a picture of Washington. >> >> Yes. That's why the Born Rule can only give probabilities. Under the right >> circumstances you might be able to say the developed picture will probably >> be Moscow, but some version of you will see Washington, and there is a non >> zero probability a electron can tunnel through a energy barrier that it >> could never do if classical physics was true. Nobody is claiming the MWI >> allows predictions to be made with total certainty. >> >> > The Born rule isn't part of MWI...it has to derived >> >> This is physics not mathematics, the Born rule isn't derived it's observed, >> and it's observed to work. > > But then MWI can't claim to be simpler and "purer" than CI. I has to add a > prescription about how to deviate from simple unitary evolution. > >> >> > (or more often just borrowed from CI). >> >> The CI doesn't own the Born Rule, neither does the MWI. All modern >> interpretations of quantum mechanics are compatible with the Born Rule, they >> had better be! If one wasn't nobody would be foolish enough to be talking >> about it today. >> >> > Suppose the camera is triggered by the decay of a radioactive atom and it >> is taking a picture of a clock. What time will it have on its film? >> >> I can't give you a certain answer, only a probability. >> >> > Must we suppose there are an uncountable infinity worlds with different >> > times recorded? >> >> Carroll admits in his book that it isn't clear if there are a denumerably >> infinite number of worlds or a larger infinity, in fact there may not be a >> infinite number of worlds at all, there might only be an astronomical number >> to a astronomical power of them. >> >> I like Many Worlds because it gives me a little intuitive understanding why >> we can only make probabilistic predictions even though the underlying >> mathematics is completely deterministic, and I like it because it gives a >> precise definition of "measurement". > > What is this precise definition of which you write? That your consciousness > becomes correlated with an eigenvalue of some Hermitean operator? Does MWI > define when a measurement has taken place or not? > > Brent > >> Of course just because I like it doesn't mean it can't be dead wrong. But I >> would bet money on one thing, if the MWI is wrong then something even >> stranger is true. >> >> John K Clark >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv1OLw6nAnj5ALgCCzDT1MQiKyDBEHSzcpvnNp0N0%3Di9eA%40mail.gmail.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv1OLw6nAnj5ALgCCzDT1MQiKyDBEHSzcpvnNp0N0%3Di9eA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/c70c673a-a95f-af24-5db8-009dc97bd20e%40verizon.net > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/c70c673a-a95f-af24-5db8-009dc97bd20e%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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