> On 1 Mar 2020, at 15:24, PGC <multiplecit...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Sunday, March 1, 2020 at 3:09:31 PM UTC+1, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 28 Feb 2020, at 18:38, PGC <multipl...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> What could be a "wrong" thesis about Watson and/or Holmes? >> >> Good question. It would be like making a summary of a novel, which would be >> wrong. If you say “Tintin never got to the moon” you are wrong, with respect >> to the novel, and false, with respect to the mundane reality. But if you say >> that the number 18 is prime, you are false, even among the aliens. >> >> If your literature professor didn't fail you, he or she should have. I say >> this without irony or humor intended. >> >> Nobody in the world, other than servitor humblebrag here, claims to know or >> have an authoritative grasp on where "mundane reality" ends and where the >> land of fiction and wishful thinking begins. Sure, we may know that some >> abstraction may or may not be locally more effective given some more or less >> defined domain... but that's far from claiming absolute reality/truth. > > I certainly do not claim the truth of Mechanism. I derive consequences of it, > and insist that Mong the consequence, nobody can know if Mechanism its true, > at least in some public way. Of course, someone having got an artificial > brain; can, privately be happy with it, but still cannot claim it to be known > as true. > > Somewhere you talked about Mechanism as a metaphor. Here mechanism explains > why this always fail. Mechanism is just the assumption of the existence of a > level where we are Turning emulable, but then that level cannot be known, and > that is why it requires, for the practitioners, some act of faith. The ethic > of mechanism is that mechanism could be wrong, and should never been > enforced. It asks for an explicit consent, or refusal. To say yes to the > doctor implies the right to say no. > > You can't post without bringing up mechanism, thereby assuming very > ambitiously that everybody you meet consents
I do not. Nobody can even guess if I believe in Mechanism myself or not. > (where are your "ethics of mechanism"?) to your use of what is still a > metaphor, It is not a metaphor. If you accept a digital artificial brain in the skull, the fact that you survive or die is not a metaphor. The artificial brain is not a metaphor. See my other post (we cannot know which machine we are, except by being lucky, and taking “know” in the weak Theaetetus sense of true belief, assuming mechanism true). > in absence of convincing evidence that even a tiny part of reality, one > complex organism, can indeed be emulated effectively enough, The contrary is true: we don’t have find any evidence of anything non mechanical in Nature. The problem of Mechanism is not that people disbelieve it, but that people take it for granted. The inconsistency happens when people believed in both Mechanism and Materialism. > that we'd have sufficient context to even approach the question. Show us > successful emulations of just one complex organism, say your favorite "worm", > instead of bringing up conways gol in conways gol. The latter is easy, while > the former... just show us and we'll see. PGC You might look at my “Amoeba, Planaria and Dreaming machine”. Usually, the extraordinary claim is “non-mechanism” (usually done by “believer” in something supernatural). Anyway, I don’t defend mechanism, nor do I attack it. It is not my job. I show it to be testable (and tested) I study how far it is from Neoplatonism, also. Bruno > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/34148dfd-0c52-4702-93d0-044d210f390f%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/34148dfd-0c52-4702-93d0-044d210f390f%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/DB5FF3BD-3008-4CEC-AEB2-54F6C52F3E8C%40ulb.ac.be.
