On 5/4/2020 3:17 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 4 May 2020, at 06:05, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 5/3/2020 8:14 PM, smitra wrote:
On 03-05-2020 23:09, Philip Thrift wrote:
The SSH
https://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/22/2/247
still lies in the "information turn" that plays in physics today.(IT
FROM QUBIT, etc.) - a rejection pf materialism in favor of idealism.
It is more interesting to me to stick to the vocabulary of
materialist* physics - particles, fields, interactions, forces - but
to approach CONSCIOUSNESS AS PURELY MATERIAL - adding a new
force/interaction/particle/field as needed (like a sixth force/field).
http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Field_theories_of_consciousness
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_theories_of_consciousness
etc.
* or physicalist
@philipthrift
Physicalism is a dead end. The hard problem of consciousness and other
philosophical problems can be considered to be no-go theorems against
physicalism. Abandoning physicalism solves all these problems in one fell swoop.
Really? What are 'all these problems that are solved’?
A reduction of why there is something to the existence of arithmetic + an
explanation of why it is possible to explain arithmetic from less.
"Reduction of there is something to the existence of arithmetic"?? I
can't even parse what problem that is...much less how you have solved
it. William S. Cooper has a good explanation from evolution.
Then the mind body problem, including why there are physical laws, and this
from a “simple” theory of consciousness. Here physics is unable to predict why
we see an eclipse when we use physics to predict an eclipse.
But physics can predict why we don't see an eclipse if we look the wrong
direction or if we wear a hood or if we close our eyes or if our optic
nerve is damaged. None of which are explained by your theory.
Does it explain why a blow to the head renders you unconscious?
That is what mechanism explains the best.
Does it explain how anesthesia works?
Certainly better than particles physics. But ye, it does not solve all
problems. It formulates them, and we have to solve them one by one, like always
in science.
In the meantime, chemisty does explain how anesthesia works. And the
explanation is based on the theory that consciousness in produced by the
brain and depends on the diffusion of hormones across synaptic gaps.
Does it explain epilepsy? Synasthesia? Drunkeness? Does it explain the
evocation of memories by electrostimulation of the brain? Dementia? Childhood
amnesia?
Yes. Why not?
You say why not. Why not explain those things. Fine, then where is the
explanation? You claim the Greeks and the neo-Platonists had all this
figured out. So they had a 900yr head start over Galileo and
Newton...and produced nothing.
Or is it just smug mysticism that physics hasn't explained X,
Has not, and cannot once we believe in say, Darwinism.
so by rejecting physics I'm entitled to any explanation I want about X.
Yes, but the simplest explanation, with the biggest range of explanation will
be the best. Physicalism remains based on a ontological commitment, which is
the sort of “miracle” that scientists are skeptical about.
We don’t have evidence for a primary physical universe. The dream argument
explains why evidence for a physical reality is not evidence for a primitive
physical reality.
That we know the difference explains why the dream argument fails.
Brent
We confuse them due to a very long pseudo-religious brainwashing, to be short.
Bruno
Brent
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