On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 10:59:54 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 4:45:25 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 2:25:39 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 9:43:11 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 5:55:52 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 4:34:00 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 6:30:46 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 5:19:30 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> About the EP; I merely stated that it demonstrates that acceleration >>>>>>> is locally indistinguishable from gravity, and then I stated what >>>>>>> "locally" >>>>>>> means. This is what Wiki and other sources say. Yet you say I am >>>>>>> confused. >>>>>>> How so? About masses of BH's, I watch documentaries which feature >>>>>>> astrophysicists offering their opinions, and they *uniformly* claim >>>>>>> that BH's have mass. How could it be otherwise if they're remnants of >>>>>>> massive collapsed stars? Not one makes Brent's claim, that they're just >>>>>>> geometric manifestations. AG >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Black hole mass is a pure spacetime physics. There is no material >>>>>> stuff anyone can get their hands on. With the tortoise coordinate the >>>>>> distant observer might say the matter-fields that made of a black hole >>>>>> exist, but if one tried to reach them they always recede away. Black >>>>>> holes >>>>>> do not have mass in a standard sense, though they have an ADM mass >>>>>> defined >>>>>> by the curvature of spacetime. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Generally, what resides inside a BH interacts gravitationally with >>>>> what's exterior and is the remnant of a Type 1A supernova. It's >>>>> unreachable, but has some correspondence with normal mass, which is why >>>>> its >>>>> mass can be estimated by its exterior effects, say for the one residing >>>>> at >>>>> the core of the Milky Way. I don't know how their masses are estimated >>>>> when >>>>> they are cores of distant galaxies. AG >>>>> >>>> >>>> The interior does not interact with the exterior. The event horizon >>>> prevents that. >>>> >>> >>> Then how can a BH interact gravitationally with objects external to the >>> event horizon, or do you deny that? AG >>> >> >> The black hole does not interact with material outside, the material >> outside interacts with the black hole. A black hole is a causality sink; >> causal propagation is into the black hole. Only stochastic quantum events >> propagate out. >> >> LC >> > > I am not sure I understand or agree. Space-time is strongly curved near a > BH. Are you claiming this curvature is not caused by the BH? In any event, > doesn't this put a nail in the coffin of quantum gravity? IIUC, the force > carrying particle in a quantum gravity theory is the graviton. If nothing > can get out of a BH, this would apply to the graviton. Seems like a problem > for any quantum gravity theory. AG >
Let me put the question another way; if gravitons exist, could they escape a BH? If not, does this adversely effect the existence of a quantum theory of gravity? TIA, AG > >> >>> >>> >>>> From the perspective of anyone in the exterior the interior of a black >>>> hole is nothing more than a theoretical abstraction. It only exists as a >>>> counter factual situation, where instead of remaining outside an observer >>>> enters the BH/ >>>> >>>> LC >>>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/7c926560-a02b-47ca-8f7b-30d7f5ef4cf6o%40googlegroups.com.
