Gravitons do not escape from a BH, any more than can light. However, from the perspective of an outside observer all matter than went into a BH is on the surface above the event horizon, called the stretched horizon.
LC On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 9:08:11 AM UTC-5 [email protected] wrote: > > > On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 10:59:54 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 4:45:25 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 2:25:39 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 9:43:11 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 5:55:52 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 4:34:00 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 6:30:46 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 5:19:30 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> About the EP; I merely stated that it demonstrates that >>>>>>>> acceleration is locally indistinguishable from gravity, and then I >>>>>>>> stated >>>>>>>> what "locally" means. This is what Wiki and other sources say. Yet >>>>>>>> you say >>>>>>>> I am confused. How so? About masses of BH's, I watch documentaries >>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>> feature astrophysicists offering their opinions, and they >>>>>>>> *uniformly* claim that BH's have mass. How could it be otherwise >>>>>>>> if they're remnants of massive collapsed stars? Not one makes Brent's >>>>>>>> claim, that they're just geometric manifestations. AG >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Black hole mass is a pure spacetime physics. There is no material >>>>>>> stuff anyone can get their hands on. With the tortoise coordinate the >>>>>>> distant observer might say the matter-fields that made of a black hole >>>>>>> exist, but if one tried to reach them they always recede away. Black >>>>>>> holes >>>>>>> do not have mass in a standard sense, though they have an ADM mass >>>>>>> defined >>>>>>> by the curvature of spacetime. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Generally, what resides inside a BH interacts gravitationally with >>>>>> what's exterior and is the remnant of a Type 1A supernova. It's >>>>>> unreachable, but has some correspondence with normal mass, which is why >>>>>> its >>>>>> mass can be estimated by its exterior effects, say for the one residing >>>>>> at >>>>>> the core of the Milky Way. I don't know how their masses are estimated >>>>>> when >>>>>> they are cores of distant galaxies. AG >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The interior does not interact with the exterior. The event horizon >>>>> prevents that. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Then how can a BH interact gravitationally with objects external to the >>>> event horizon, or do you deny that? AG >>>> >>> >>> The black hole does not interact with material outside, the material >>> outside interacts with the black hole. A black hole is a causality sink; >>> causal propagation is into the black hole. Only stochastic quantum events >>> propagate out. >>> >>> LC >>> >> >> I am not sure I understand or agree. Space-time is strongly curved near a >> BH. Are you claiming this curvature is not caused by the BH? In any event, >> doesn't this put a nail in the coffin of quantum gravity? IIUC, the force >> carrying particle in a quantum gravity theory is the graviton. If nothing >> can get out of a BH, this would apply to the graviton. Seems like a problem >> for any quantum gravity theory. AG >> > > Let me put the question another way; if gravitons exist, could they escape > a BH? If not, does this adversely effect the existence of a quantum theory > of gravity? TIA, AG > >> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> From the perspective of anyone in the exterior the interior of a black >>>>> hole is nothing more than a theoretical abstraction. It only exists as a >>>>> counter factual situation, where instead of remaining outside an observer >>>>> enters the BH/ >>>>> >>>>> LC >>>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/388b6ba6-723e-41c1-838f-b315259443ban%40googlegroups.com.
