On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 11:43:48 AM UTC-5 [email protected] wrote: > > > On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 5:34:17 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 4:48:51 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> >>> On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 5:01:41 AM UTC-5 [email protected] wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 7:50:07 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 5:08:57 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Gravitons do not escape from a BH, any more than can light. However, >>>>>> from the perspective of an outside observer all matter than went into a >>>>>> BH >>>>>> is on the surface above the event horizon, called the stretched horizon. >>>>>> >>>>>> LC >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gravitons might not exist (and hence quantum gravity can't exist) But >>>>> whatever the case, how can BH's interact gravitationally with objects >>>>> beyond its event horizon? You say this doesn't happen. I don't understand >>>>> your argument. AG >>>>> >>>> >>> That you are saying this illustrates you do not understand general >>> relativity. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> I may have identified the thousand pound gorilla in the room; the >>>> hypothetical force carrying particle of the quantum gravitating field, the >>>> graviton, which for BH's doesn't exert any force! AG >>>> >>> >>> I have no idea why you are saying this. Gravitation is not a force in >>> the usual sense and so the graviton does not produce a force in the >>> standard meaning. For the weak field limit the nonlinear terms are >>> negligable and a gravitational wave is linear. This is easily quantized. In >>> fact it is similar to the Hanbury-Brown and Twiss theory of the diphoton. >>> It is when the field becomes strong that general relativity becomes >>> nonlinear and runs into trouble with quantum mechanics. >>> >>> LC >>> >> >> I assumed a quantum field theory of gravity must have a particle >> associated with it, and that this particle is called the graviton. Gravity >> is a fictitious force. So what would the role of the graviton be, if not to >> produce some force? If you detect gravitational waves, don't they consist >> of gravitons if a quantum theory of gravity exists, analogous to photons in >> EM waves? AG >> > > Before you can present yourself as deeply knowledgeable of GR, you should > be able to give a coherent account how presumably *isolated* bodies such > as BH's, can gravitationally interact with what's exterior to them. If > gravitons can't do that in the context of a quantum theory of gravity, what > can? AG >
It is the delay or tortoise coordinate basis for an external observer. LC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/0bd5ff9c-5cb7-472b-89b4-f6f969c5e81an%40googlegroups.com.
