> On 25 Feb 2021, at 13:03, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Am Do, 25. Feb 2021, um 10:55, schrieb Bruno Marchal: >> >>> On 24 Feb 2021, at 15:30, Telmo Menezes <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> As an outside observer, I can't help but notice the following pattern in >>> American politics: every presidential election is now seen as a >>> civilization-threatening event, where each side believes that the other >>> side is literally pure evil in its crystalized form, and that if they win, >>> life as we know it will be over. We have now been through several >>> iterations of this, and the reality is that nothing ever seems to happen, >>> one way or the other. >> >> I think that before Trump, most Dems and Rep saw themselves as adversary, >> but not as enemy. Only with Trump, the adversary has become a scapegoat, an >> enemy, the responsible of all wrongs. Trump does not seem to be able to >> dialog, not even with its close accomplices. Trump is the worst enemy of … >> Trump. I think that his case is close to being pathological. > > I agree, but I think Trump is a symptom, not a cause.
Certainly. But Trump is a sort of extreme symptom. Almost a caricature. But you are right, and this is exemplified by the fact that it keeps, apparently, his seduction power on the Republicans, even after those last month where he showed how much a bad looser he can be. > There is also Boris Johnson, who is Britain's Trump, Bolsonaro, who is > Brazil's Trump, etc. Maybe for Bolsonaro. But Boris Johnson is not comparable to Trump. I did fear that he could be like Trump, but he is not. Johnson is not an enemy of democracy. Trump is. That’s what I feel, or smell… I might be wrong, but Johnson has reassured me on that key point. The other Trump in power are more like Kim Young Un, ABS (Saudi), Erdogan, and Putin... > > With the mainstream adoption of the Internet, in the early 2000s, political > campaigns were reinvented (data-driven, highly targeted like advertisement). > The early examples of this appear to be Tony Blair's second campaign in the > UK and Obama's first in the US. Then it became the new norm, with increased > sophistication. At the same time, journalism responded to the exestential > threat created by the Internet by merging itself with the nascent ad-tech > industry, pioneered by Google. In this new attention economy, the one who > engages people's emotions the most wins. We are witnessing the race to the > bottom that this creates, with widespread hysteria and irrationality from > both sides of the political spectrum. I think that Trump and QAnon are > products of this, and so is brexit on this side of the Atlantic. You are right. I would add the Russian propaganda. Since long I tend to think that the Brexit is almost a pure result of Russian propaganda, but I have not found the time to verify all the evidences, so I cannot swear on this. Causation is a difficult subject. The systematic lies in the Oil industry and derivatives has put the bandits into power, but even this necessitates a millenium of training in believing in fairy tales. Maybe the cause is the poor level of education in math and logic. Postmodern relativism does not help, … Truth Research is not well-seen those days... > > I think that this is not so different from the obesity crisis created by fast > food. Like with hyper-palatable food, we have not evolved for an environment > where we are constantly targeted by emotionally-charged "news" that are > fine-tuned by algorithms to be hyper-stimulating. It is a general problem with universal machine. But as long as we fight to keep up our universality, we will survive as individual. If not, we will be swallowed by a higher level organism (and never get any opportunity to say “no” to the doctor…). The choice is in between liberty and insecurity (like to remain a free bacteria), or get a job and a limited social security (like becoming a mitochondria, or a chloroplaste). After Trump we get a lesson, and all democracies should be solider and consolidate themselves, improved and get rid of the most recent lies (and stop asking for the legalization of cannabis, and ask for penalisation of prohibitionism, for example). Theology should come back to the academy, before the theotechnologies develop too much... > > If it wasn't McDonald's, it would be something else. If it wasn't Trump, it > would be someone else. Yes, I saw Trump as a chance. A sort of proof by absurd. But the GOP has awaken me that some people really does not acre of the truth. The GOP remind me a student who reject a proof, because when I got the contradiction: 0 = 1, he asked me why was that a problem, and argued that my belief that 0 should be different from 1 was a cultural prejudices. (I gave him a zero, … and when complaining I showed him that it was the best note possible, in a world where 0 = 1). > >> >> >>> >>> Let me propose a (I know, perhaps crazy), alternative hypothesis: >>> >>> Your limbic system has been hijacked for clicks. The presidency is not as >>> important as you think it is. Most people are mostly incompetent. China is >>> incompetent, Russia is incompetent, the CIA is incompetent and so on and so >>> forth. Very little of what they do matter to you or me in any way, shape or >>> form. >>> >>> There is no class consciousness in the 21st century in the west. There will >>> be no revolt of the middle classes. Antifa is just a bunch of college kids >>> doing what college kids do. BLM protests created no problems of any >>> significance whatsoever. Statues don't matter, cancel culture doesn't >>> matter, the alt-right doesn't matter, none of it matters. Most of the >>> public personalities on both the right and the left are entertainers making >>> a living. Nothing of what they say matters. >> >> ? >> If Trump would have said what he knew about covid-19 in February 2020), May >> people would still be alive. > > Perhaps, but we have no way of testing the counter-factual scenario. Trump > was extremely selfish and incompetent, I don't doubt this for a second, but > I'm not sure if his incompetence didn't just result in the forest fire being > started a bit earlier rather than later. But I wouldn't be surprised if > you're right. I don't think we can know. It's a complex scenario. I think that, at the least, this should be inquired. I do think many lives would have been saved. Each of its last rallies have lead to surge of cases. Such virus have higher probability to mute if not kept controlled. And in his interview, he really shows he knew the danger, just before hiding it to the public. The voters for Trump are more problematic. Some believes the lies, some just don’t care. > > In Portugal they kind of did the right thing early, and the country had one > of the best outcomes in Europe. Then they became confident, and ended up > relaxing restrictions for Xmas. Then they quickly became the worst case in > Europe. The US is exponentially more complex than Portugal. How long can you > keep restrictions when you don't feel the outcomes? From what I see here in > Berlin, it's not easy. Much worse in a country where self-reliance and > distrust of government is baked into the culture from the beginning, I would > say. (for good and bad!) How can we take seriously people who lie in the human science since 1492 tears, and on medication even more since a century. Money is the most wonderful mean, and the most horrible goal, and today, we are in the extreme confusion between means and goals. Planned obsolescence, which is partially detrimental for the environment, was asked by people and obtained through strikes, more or less influenced by private interests too, but it makes sense for people who feared to loss their jobs. That was an error, guided by short term interest, and it is hard to solve such kind of problem, and much more so in absence of genuine information, or worse, in presence of misinformation. > >> If Trump would have won the second term election: I think that democracy >> would not have survived, on the whole planet, and the whole planet would be >> like … Texas today. I mean without water, ... > > I don't think that the US is as important to rest of the world as it used to > be. With all its flaws, I believe it is the EU that is now carrying the torch > of liberal democracy, the "free world" as they liked to say during the Cold > War. Perhaps because the still recent lessons on the XX century don't leave > so much space to get drunk with fantasies of exceptionalism. I am not that optimistic about the EU. If the US makes some wrong, usually the EU will do it later. I hope you are right, and maybe you are. > >> >> >>> >>> The stuff that matters is boring: laws, education, serious journalism. If >>> the legal system, or education, or newspapers give you an emotional rush, >>> you're probably getting counterfeit goods. Being able to talk to each other >>> without accusing the other side of being nazis or harvesting babies for >>> adrenochrome is what probably matters. There is no conspiracy. There is >>> just short-term greed, and new technologies that create environments that >>> we did not evolve for. >> >> If short term greed is satisfy by honest means, there is no problem, but >> when lies are made at the top, soon the belly, the health, and the basic >> needs disappear, leading to suffering. > > I agree. My point is that we are still adopting to a highly transformative > communication technology. Every time a qualitative jump in communication > technology happens, it seems to create profound social transformations and > challenges. Consider Gutenberg and Protestantism, or, what would have been of > Hitler without radio, etc. Gengis Kan did not need radio or technology to torture and massacred entire cities and countries. The communication technology just accelerate everything. Mark Twain said that the times that truth take to put its shoes, the lies have the time to circle the whole planet. Today, the lies have the time to circle a million times on the whole planet, when Truth is still in its bed... > >> >>> >>> I detest Trump, but I detest him because he's a dumb and mean narcissist >>> who sets a horrible example. I don't like bullies, and I hate it when they >>> win. Otherwise, he didn't matter. He accomplished nothing of any >>> significance, good or bad. >> >> I think he did one good thing, and a tun of very bad things, and his >> endangering of democracy is not yet terminated. Thanks to him, there are >> QAnon people in the government. That’s very bad. > > I guess you get my position by now: the Internet is the ulterior cause here, > Trump is one of the consequences. I agree that democracy was and is > endangered. The Internet has a big accelerating role, like the radio did for Hitler, but it is essentially the same human blindness in the human domain, still too hot, and where we are regressing in the name of tolerance. Freedom of religion is a sort f freedom of lying in the most important domain. We have just not yet left the Middle-Âge. We are at the peak of obscurantism. Only our ability to destroy the planet keep us in a sort of local peace, but the mentality is still, “my boss is right and yours is not”. > >> >>> The covid fuck-up probably had more to do with American culture and overall >>> circumstances than anything else. The lack of a real public health system, >> >> That’s because prohibition and free-market are inconsistent. Then, the >> abandon of rigour in the fundamental human science makes people accepting >> inconsistencies, which lead to human catastrophes. Even the “electric >> crisis” in Texas comes from the worst political isolationnisme possible, and >> a willingness to refuse a free-market for electricity. > > I agree. > >> >>> the self-reliant mentality that has a great side and a horrible side, the >>> glorification of work at all costs, the social inequalities that force a >>> lot of people to work at all costs. All stuff that was already there, and >>> will keep being there. Every country in the world thought they were very >>> smart about covid until they weren't. If one compares covid to the Spanish >>> flu, it's unfolding in exactly the same way. The curves look the same, it's >>> uncanny. >>> >>> Biden won't matter either, nor will Kamala. >> >> When good willing people can do compromise, people have a bigger chance to >> drink when thirsty or to eat when hungry. And kids have more chance to get a >> solid education, and become less prone to lies. I fear as much Sanders than >> Trump, > > Really? Sanders sounds like a moderate social-democrat to my European ears… Sanders said that he would move the US embassy back from Jerusalem. The only “good” thing Trump did. The left is unaware that Islamism is a German Nazi construct, ameliorated by the Soviet-Union, and that the conflict in the Middle-East is the continuation of the seconde War. It is not a war against Muslims, nor against Arabs, but a war against Nazis and nazis doctrine. We are entirely responsible, by subtracting the nazi muslims from the Nuremberg trial, and we have let nazism proliferate in the Middle-East. The French president still collaborate with the Muslim Brotherhood, which are nazi since 1942. Islamism is nazism, disguised into a religion. > >> and the task will not be easy for Biden and Kamala, but I leave them a >> chance, and at least, they are of the type of beings capable of conceding >> losing elections. Trump, it seems to me, has clearly shows his envy to be a >> dictator, which it is the first time in the US that this could have >> happened. Without the honesty of the Republicans in Georgia, Trump might >> have become the 46th president, and I don’t even want to imagine the state >> of the US after that. > > I agree with you that he wished to become a dictator, and there is no doubt > that he tried a coup. It looks like about 30% of the population will support > him no matter what, and desires a military coup and a tyrant backed by the > military. They are mainly the white suprematist, the nostalgic of the confederate, … it smells like the American civil war… It is so sad... > They also fantasize about the public execution of all political rivals. That > being said, it looks like 30% is the ceiling, and I suspect they were there > all along. It is just that it was easier to hide them, from all of us and > from each other, when that state had a firmer grip on centralized media > pre-Internet. My optimistic view is that 4 more years of Trump would not > cause this 30% ceiling to grow. On the contrary, it is perhaps doomed to > recede due to demographic changes. That its why the act now. That is why they try by all means to prevent people from voting. Some state makes illegal to give water to people waiting on a line for voting. That is not … christian. 30% of illiterate people, and clever demagog, liars and manipulators can still do a lot of bad. > > I think it is also good to take a step back from all the emotionally charged > environment that ad-tech enabled "journalism" has created for all of us. I agree. But we live at a forking period, and without a bit of vigilance, the worst is not excluded. I hope the best, but I fear the worst, and with some chance it will be a reasonable in-between... > >>> >>> Is there a lot of stuff that we should improve in the world? Oh yes! But >>> none of this has anything to do with that. >> >> I think that the democracy is the base to make any long-term improvement >> possible. Of course, it is a “living” thing, and so it can get sick, and >> even die. > > I agree. > >> For me, democracy is a symptom of our Löbianity: the knowledge that we don’t >> know the truth, nor can we know what is the best for us, and the >> consequence: let us try and see if it works, and letting people judge if it >> works, by oscillating between alternative solutions. > > I agree and it is very fragile because people can be convinced to vote for > tyranny. But I do think that: > > (1) The US is far from that; > (2) The US doesn't matter as it once has. I hope you are right. In my country I know that there are some “Trump”, well hidden, and basically doing worse than Trump, but in a more discrete way. There are still nazis here too. We are not cured. And the lies move quickly, by this wonderful but double edged communication power. > >> Paul Valery said that the human choice is between war and logic. Democracy >> is the attempt to use logic, and argumentation around a table, instead of >> bloody war on a battlefield, and I think it is a key progress. It prevents >> dark lasting ideology of possible bully monarchs. > > Yes. I know a lot of people who fetishize war. It is a particularly bad > problem in the US, with all the acritical "thank you for your service" > mentality. Well; and the shooting made by people who can’t buy a joint, but can buy a military assault rifle capable of killing hundreds of people in a minute… I am OK with gun, and I could even defend the right of the personal atomic bomb. There is no better gift when you want tell someone that you trust him/her. But still, this has to be regulated properly, like anything dangerous, and it should not be available easily. Maybe with medical prescription. > Perhaps a bit like what happened in Rome, where the only avenue to climb the > social ladder for a lot of people was through the army. But it is also a > problem here and elsewhere. The army is specialised in urgent decision in absence of complete information, where curiously enough the old human theory “the boss is right” makes sense. Outside the army, in "normal” peace time, "the boss is right" is the sempiternal invalid argument per authority. It prevents improvement, and can kill the doubts in the fundamental inquiry, leading to obscurantism, which helps only the criminals, and the tyrants. What we have to do is simple. We must get the free-market back, so 1) Abolish the prohibition laws, ... Bruno "Prohibition... goes beyond the bound of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded" -Abraham Lincoln, U.S. President "If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who lives under Tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson > > Telmo > >> Bruno >> >> >> >>> >>> Telmo >>> >>> Am Mi, 24. Feb 2021, um 04:14, schrieb spudboy100 via Everything List: >>>> Well look at it this way The billionaires the globalist all the same >>>> funded and conspired with news media according to Time magazine a couple >>>> of weeks ago to get their China money back which was the essence of their >>>> opposition to the orange man. Going forward it's going to be more >>>> interesting to see what happens with the US domestic economy first, and >>>> then see if the so-called Democrats decide to use political oppression on >>>> top of this. What I am guessing is that if and when they do, and it is no >>>> certainty, we'll see a rebellion in the USA, because not everybody in this >>>> continent is so easily persuaded by whatever Obama and Kamala and of >>>> course Joe have to say about things specifically don't lose sight of the >>>> fact that it is there oligarchy that is running things now and not the US >>>> middle class and I think things will break along class lines if it when >>>> things go bad especially economically. Peace out! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Bruno Marchal >>>> <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 21 Jan 2021, at 01:34, spudboy100 via Everything List >>>>> <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Bruno, I completely agree and will be delighted to be proven wrong, as >>>>> thus, the new people (basically Obama's people) have a turn again at bat >>>>> (US baseball reference). QANON, I ignored because they produced nothing >>>>> useful, Basically, a disinformation campaign, and many of these in the >>>>> past seemingly, were not all by the Soviets, the Chinese Communist Party, >>>>> but were spun up by US advertising agencies. All in the name of >>>>> psychological warfare. >>>> >>>> I don’t think we can compare the lying propaganda (of the USSR for >>>> exemple) with the advertising in the US. Even the lies on drugs could be >>>> criticised, and the truth be known, like with the book of Jack Herer. He >>>> has not been sent in jail, nor his family get under threats. Threats in >>>> politics in something new in America, and seems to come up through Trump >>>> and those who enabled him. That is very grave, but, thank God, the US is >>>> still a democracy. But the Republican Party is very sick, that is what we >>>> can say. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Here is my questions for the departed Orange President? Where is your >>>>> evidence of massive, successful, voter fraud? >>>>> >>>>> Since you had mentioned back in 2016 when you ran against Hillary, >>>> >>>> I ran for nobody. After one week of Trump’s campaign I predicted (wrongly) >>>> that he would not get more than one vote. I am vey naïve, but once he >>>> promised he would show his taxes, I knew he was a crook. I am a >>>> republican, just horrified by Donald Trump and most of his acolytes. For >>>> me you can put Trump at the extreme left. You need this to lick Putin and >>>> Kim-Young-Un feet... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> and quoted a study that indicated illegals in the US voting, you must >>>>> have expected vote fraud, so why not take the steps to ensure that it >>>>> would be difficult to conduct mass fraud?? >>>> >>>> The election in the US are very well organised. To have mass fraud is >>>> basically impossible. You would need thousands of democrats becoming >>>> (fake) member of the Republican Party. At this hours, we would have many >>>> whistleblowers using some doubt, at the least. But none of this occur, and >>>> no people witnessing frauds have maintained their claim under oath. I >>>> think, with Crebs, that: those were the most secure election ever made on >>>> the planet. >>>> >>>> Now, the facts that republicans continue to fear Trump worry me. They will >>>> lose the election and the honour, and that’s the best case scenario for >>>> the US. >>>> >>>> Bruno >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Bruno Marchal <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Wed, Jan 20, 2021 10:41 am >>>>> Subject: Re: Q Anon is the tip of the iceberg >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 17 Jan 2021, at 08:22, spudboy100 via Everything List >>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Universities are the autocratic kings of censorship and repression. >>>>> Some universities are like that, with some degree. When I was young, >>>>> there were some excellent course in philosophy alongside with course >>>>> which were pure and simple propaganda. >>>>> >>>>> Then even the math departement was politicised, after may 1968. You >>>>> needed to be communist to be well seen by the geometers, to be socialist >>>>> to be well seen by Algebraists, and to be capitalist to be analyst >>>>> (calculus). Well, not as clearcut at this, but that was in the air, and >>>>> some student got bad note for not applauding some local ideology, which >>>>> was outrageous, >>>>> Some have fight on this and win, others have fight and got many problems. >>>>> It all depends on the character of many individuals, but of course, the >>>>> pré-eminance of the human general law “the boss is right” does not help. >>>>> >>>>> At least, in a working democracy, we can change the boss from time to >>>>> time. That is a real progress, and perhaps the only one since Plato, in >>>>> the human science. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> It is no mistake that the most tyrannical of presidents Wilson and Obama >>>>>> arrived from the realm of professorship. I would add FDR and his >>>>>> internment camps, but he did free more peeps, than he imprisoned to say >>>>>> the least, so good on him. >>>>>> So what to do? My part is easy! Wait for errors on the side of the >>>>>> ruling class, that affects the middle class, and when enough uncorrected >>>>>> problems pile up, people, naturally will react. Repression from social >>>>>> media and the banks will be one thing that initiates a back-reaction >>>>>> (right outta optical physics). >>>>>> If the Dems do well with economic recovery, then it will be sunny skies >>>>>> for them. Once Kamala gets in gear, we will see what her leadership >>>>>> takes us? >>>>> >>>>> Let us give them a chance. We will see. >>>>> >>>>> Bruno >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Saturday, January 16, 2021 Philip Benjamin >>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> [John K Clark] >>>>>> “No universities are doing any censoring either and for exactly the same >>>>>> reason, although I do think threatening to expel students for what they >>>>>> say is a very unproductive thing to do” >>>>>> [Philip Benjamin] >>>>>> There are hundreds if not thousands of instances to the contrary. >>>>>> Some are listed below. That is why I call these Universities >>>>>> WAMP—Western Acade-Media Pagan(ism). >>>>>> 1. https://www.thefire.org/10-worst-colleges-for-free-speech-2020/ >>>>>> <https://www.thefire.org/10-worst-colleges-for-free-speech-2020/> >>>>>> 2. >>>>>> https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014/07/24/scientist-alleges-csun-fired-him-for-discovery-of-soft-tissue-on-dinosaur-fossil/ >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014/07/24/scientist-alleges-csun-fired-him-for-discovery-of-soft-tissue-on-dinosaur-fossil/> >>>>>> LOS >>>>>> ANGELES (CBSLA.com <http://cbsla.com/>) — Attorneys for a >>>>>> California State University, Northridge scientist who was terminated >>>>>> from his job after discovering soft tissue on a triceratops fossil have >>>>>> filed a lawsuit against the university. >>>>>> 3. https://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/19kentucky.html >>>>>> <https://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/19kentucky.html> >>>>>> Astronomer Sues the University of Kentucky, Claiming His Faith Cost >>>>>> Him a Job >>>>>> 4. >>>>>> https://www.christianpost.com/news/professor-fired-after-speech-opposing-puberty-blocking-drugs-sues-university.html >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://www.christianpost.com/news/professor-fired-after-speech-opposing-puberty-blocking-drugs-sues-university.html> >>>>>> A Psychiatry Professor fired after speech opposing puberty-blocking >>>>>> drugs sues university >>>>>> 5. >>>>>> https://mynewsla.com/crime/2021/01/11/chapman-professor-who-supports-trump-resists-calls-for-ouster/ >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://mynewsla.com/crime/2021/01/11/chapman-professor-who-supports-trump-resists-calls-for-ouster/> >>>>>> A Chapman University law professor who has come under fire for his >>>>>> election fraud claims and participation in a rally led by President >>>>>> Donald Trump just before the insurrection at the Capitol fought back >>>>>> Monday against critics who are calling for his ouster from the university >>>>>> 6. http://www.theevolutioncrisis.org.uk/testimony5.php >>>>>> <http://www.theevolutioncrisis.org.uk/testimony5.php> >>>>>> 7. >>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Expelled-Intelligence-Allowed-Ben-Stein/dp/B001BYLFFS >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://www.amazon.com/Expelled-Intelligence-Allowed-Ben-Stein/dp/B001BYLFFS> >>>>>> Big science has expelled smart new ideas from the classroom ... >>>>>> What they forgot is that every generation has its Rebel! That rebel, Ben >>>>>> Stein (Ferris Bueller’s Day Off) travels the world on his quest, and >>>>>> learns an awe-inspiring truth … that educators and scientists are being >>>>>> ridiculed, denied tenure and even fired – for the crime of merely >>>>>> believing that there might be evidence of design in nature, and that >>>>>> perhaps life is not just the result of accidental, random chance. To >>>>>> which Ben Says: Enough! And then gets busy. NOBODY messes with Ben. >>>>>> Philip Benjamin >>>>>> >>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of John Clark >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2021 6:12 AM >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> Cc: [email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Q Anon is the tip of the iceberg >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:00 PM spudboy100 via Everything List >>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > For me, all I need to see is which companies are doing the censoring? >>>>>> >>>>>> To censor someone you need the power to imprison or kill them if they >>>>>> say something you don't like, so no company is doing any censoring, some >>>>>> of them may want to but none of them are able to because only >>>>>> governments have enough power to do that. I'm not saying companies don't >>>>>> have any power at all because they do, and sometimes they use the power >>>>>> they do have unwisely, and that's a problem, but the solution is not to >>>>>> give even more power to the government because it already has quite >>>>>> enough power thank you. So what is the solution? I don't know, there >>>>>> may not be one, there is not always a solution to every problem and >>>>>> that's why we live in an imperfect world and probably always will, but >>>>>> we should try to make the imperfections as small as possible. And if >>>>>> history has taught us anything it's that giving even more power to the >>>>>> government, which is already the most powerful institution in our >>>>>> society, will not make the world perfect. >>>>>> >>>>>> > Which universities are censoring for the "safety of the students" >>>>>> >>>>>> No universities are doing any censoring either and for exactly the same >>>>>> reason, although I do think threatening to expel students for what they >>>>>> say is a very unproductive thing to do. And I think the idea that >>>>>> university students are such delicate snowflakes that they need >>>>>> protection from harsh language or exposure to views different from their >>>>>> own is ridiculous; they're not gonna be in college for their entire life >>>>>> and sooner or later they're going to have to toughen up if they want to >>>>>> live in the real world. So that's a problem, but the world is full of >>>>>> problems and some of them we just have to live with. I know one thing >>>>>> for sure: a government edict banning such a practice would cause more >>>>>> problems than it solved. >>>>>> >>>>>> > We had 7 months of sporadic riots and the liberals (which I sometimes >>>>>> > side with) and now they freak out when conservatives targets the >>>>>> > capital. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you are not freaked out by a murderous mob of Stormtrumper zombies >>>>>> staging a coup d'état by attacking the Capital Building which contained >>>>>> the Vice President and every single member of the House and Senate in an >>>>>> attempt to overturn the Constitution of the USA and a free election to >>>>>> keep their "Dear Leader" in power indefinitely then there is something >>>>>> very seriously wrong with you! >>>>>> >>>>>> John K Clark. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/SA0PR11MB4704E7BC4D709068A5C29666A8A60%40SA0PR11MB4704.namprd11.prod.outlook.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/SA0PR11MB4704E7BC4D709068A5C29666A8A60%40SA0PR11MB4704.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/142155772.2685116.1610868150478%40mail.yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/142155772.2685116.1610868150478%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> 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