@Alan. You should ask yourself why is it that you don't like the truth and instead want to talk about Santa Claus.
On Friday 4 October 2024 at 13:21:07 UTC+3 Alan Grayson wrote: > On Thursday, October 3, 2024 at 10:43:44 PM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote: > > On Thursday, October 3, 2024 at 8:03:26 PM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote: > > On Thursday, October 3, 2024 at 7:34:32 PM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote: > > On Thursday, October 3, 2024 at 7:02:26 PM UTC-6 Brent Meeker wrote: > > The universe is spatially flat and it always has been and it's infinite > spatially and always has been. It had an earliest state we know about that > was very dense and hot and things have expanded from that state. > > Brent > > > *It would be desirable and intellectually honest if, instead of preaching > the Gospel (the consensus view among cosmologists who can't think > clearly), you could argue against my logic. Too much to ask? AG* > > > *So you "think" the universe has always been spatially infinite, yet had a > beginning in the BB, as confirmed by the CMBR? * > > > *Can I conclude you've fallen in love, or are obtuse to an obvious > inconsistency; namely, a universe which always existed, yet had a beginning > in the BB? AG* > > > *I think I get it. You must be putting me on. Hard to believe you actually > read my post and responded with such a lack of genuine consideration. Not > funny. AG * > > > > On 10/3/2024 8:59 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Thursday, October 3, 2024 at 9:50:12 AM UTC-6 Cosmin Visan wrote: > > You can only ever observe yourself. So by unobservable you mean the minds > of other consciousnesses ? > > > I'm seeking substantive responses, so please refrain from posting on this > thread. AG > > > On Thursday 3 October 2024 at 17:21:28 UTC+3 Alan Grayson wrote: > > To recapitulate and clarify the argument: > > Firstly, by "universe" (our "bubble"), I mean the observable *and* > unobservable regions defining our expanding universe. > > Secondly, since our universe is expanding, we could run the clock backward > to any earlier time, and imagine enclosing it in a sphere, say, > establishing that the observable region is finite in spatial extent. (It's > actually measured to have a radius of 46 BLY.) > > Thirdly, concerning the *un*observable region, let's assume it's infinite > in spatial extent. If so, this couldn't have occurred in stages, say by > spatial expansion, since no matter how fast it might expand, or for how > long a length of time, it would remain finite throughout, and could never > achieve infinite status. Hence, the only way it could be infinite in > spatial extent, would be for it to be either *UN*-*created*, or if it had > a beginning it must have expanded *instantaneously* to infinity in > spatial extent. These options are falsified in two ways; first by the CMBR, > which is predicted by the Big Bang. That is, empirical evidence affirms it > had a starting time. And second, as previously argued, if it is now > infinite in spatial extent and had a beginning, it would have had to expand > *instantaneously* to infinity. Since I consider this physically > impossible -- which is my unproven and likely unprovable assumption -- by > two lines of argument our universe must be finite in spatial extent. > > Final conclusions:, being *finite* in spatial extent, *it cannot be flat* > (despite the consensus view), since that implies infinite in spatial extent > (assuming it's not toroidal). And there is no need to do any measurements. > Using a purely logical argument, our universe is finite in spatial extent > and cannot have a flat global geometry. Its likely global geometry is > approximately spherical, since it's expanding in all directions from every > point in spacetime and is approximately isotropic. What could be *uncreated > and infinite in space and time*, is the substratum from which our > universe emerged. > > QED, AG > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/66ab8acd-3a49-4f69-9817-24fad7eb64afn%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/66ab8acd-3a49-4f69-9817-24fad7eb64afn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/c4a46eaf-b6b5-458b-baae-604c3141c00cn%40googlegroups.com.
