On Saturday, November 9, 2024 at 7:40:20 PM UTC-7 Alan Grayson wrote:
On Saturday, November 9, 2024 at 5:52:16 PM UTC-7 Brent Meeker wrote: On 11/9/2024 3:26 PM, Alan Grayson wrote On Saturday, November 9, 2024 at 1:25:32 PM UTC-7 Brent Meeker wrote On 11/9/2024 10:00 AM, Alan Grayson wrote On Saturday, November 9, 2024 at 4:39:37 AM UTC-7 John Clark wrote: On Fri, Nov 8, 2024 at 9:40 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote *>>> Why do you characterize the explanation of the possible insufficiency of our concept of space, a NON-local hidden variable?* *>> Because if an event occurred 4 light years away and happened LESS than 4 years ago and yet it still affected you then that affect was non-local, because that's what "non-local" means. Is such an affect possible, does Quantum Mechanics permit it? Nobody knows, but if I were betting I would bet not.* *> Your first sentence requires IMO, more precision. Please re-write it.* *No.* >Are you referring to faster-than-SoL phenomenom? Obviously. You're too cocky. No. Not faster than SoL, but instantaneous. Entangled particles are non-separable. AG Anything faster than light is instantaneous in some reference frame; and goes in either direction depending on the reference frame. Which is a good reason for supposing no information can be transmitted FoL. Brent That's one data point. Another is the fact that neither member of an entangled pair has a preexisting spin before measurement, I know you mean no fixed spin direction before measurement, but it does have a spin because when you measure it you never get zero spin. and that when one of a pair is measured, the other seems to know that value is regardless of the perceived separation distance. The the way to look at is that there was only one spin state from the beginning, when the pair was created. They shared this value in Hilbert space. Yes, I am aware of that. AG Nothing "traveled" between them. So it's reasonable to say we don't know what the hell is going on. AG We do know exactly what's going on. We get the empirically correct prediction for every experiment. It's just not a nursery story about little balls. Five hundred years ago someone with your attitude would be demanding to know what spirit caused the measuring instrument needle to move. You've just gotten used to mathematical explanations involving little balls bouncing around so you don't question Newtonian mathematics. You need to update your intuition. Brent Then you must believe that EM waves are continuous because ME's predict it? Should I update my intuition so it conforms to your illusion; namely, that you actually know what's going, and no less than *exactly*? This is hubris in its purist form. In fact, in this context you know nothing. You suffer the illusion of thinking some reference to Hilbert space vectors is somehow dispositive of the mystery. AG What IMO you are obtuse to, is the likely fact that Bell experiments with entangled pairs might indicate an as yet unknown property of space. AG -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1ef1420f-26db-421e-8895-8fbe737d372an%40googlegroups.com.
