On Sunday, December 15, 2024 at 11:20:37 PM UTC-7 Brent Meeker wrote:
On 12/15/2024 1:00 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: *What lies? Do the improbable for you, the honorable thing; admit you can't answer my question about time ordering of events, and that the question never even occurred to you. AG* I don't think anybody can answer your question because you can never seem to formulate it clearly. *Jesse understood my question and answered it, possibly because we both went to Ivy League universities and speak the same language (called English BTW). I am still working on his solution. But to the extent I am unable to formulate it clearly, follows from the fact that I've been struggling to understand what's confused me. Now it's much clearer. I think I was in a Newtonian trap, thinking absolute time exists which allows me to compare results in different frames at the same time. If I could do this, a paradox mighta be evident. Now I see that's impossible. Clearly, relativity doesn't have any absolute time, and the comparison I thought I could make, relativity simply doesn't allow. The only absolute in relativity is the invariance of the SoL, and all apparently peculiar results stem from that fact. AG* For example, you wrote, "if two events are simultaneous in one frame, and not in another, will the time order necessarily be reversed in that frame and all others" Notice that you don't even say the time order of what; probably not the simultaneous pair since it be no change to reverse them. So it must refer to "the other frame" and you ask will the time order be reverse in "that frame and all others". But that makes no sense, of course they won't be reversed "in that frame". If they're reversed it must be in some third frame. And you ask "will the time order necessarily be reversed"...If what? If the car goes faster or slower. Your question is of the form, "If X will Y." *The context is clear IMO. It involves the two ends of a car which are measured simultaneous in time, and any other frame where they might or might not be simultanous. The question followed your previous comment about two events not necessarily defining a fitting in some frame, and the possibility of the time ordering being reversed. AG* You remind me of an elderly argumentative engineer, Jim Johnson, I used to work with. Jim would proudly assert, "Nobody can prove anything to me if I don't want them to." *As you should be able to see; I have clarified and changed my view of the alleged paradox which started this thread. So you obviously wrongly compare me to some argumentative person you knew in the past, which has no relationship whatsoever with my thoroughness in disentangling my confusions about relativity. IMO, the way to understand this subject after defining its postulates and deriving the LT and other basic results, is to study the various alleged paradoxes and their resolutions. This is rarely done, except for, say, the TP, and even in this case, it's generally not done correctly. Henceforth, please do me a big favor; resist the temptation to dump some undeserved crap, aka shit, on my whatever. I really don't need or deserve it. TY, AG* Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/3a622c4d-162b-4f47-a2cd-8fe89b8c6e3cn%40googlegroups.com.
