Actually I think he has got a point and everybody misunderstood him. IMHO he wasn't bashing Mandrake, but merely stating a Linux general problem. The libraries and dependencies thing is linux is really a big PITA. Each time I want to install something which is not in my standard distro I have to go through the pains of hell for searching for dependencies. As far as urpmi is concerned it does a great job, but since it cannot resolve dependencies outside the mdk distro, it doesn't help much. I hate Winblows and still dream of the day when I could totally switch to linux, but linux is not making things very easy for us who want to switch to it. In winblows I don't have to give a rats ass about dependencies. Most programs come with the needed library statically binded or depends on libraries which are already in the distros of about 5 major types of winblows on the use at this time. Let me try to depict the Linux problem in clear:
1. Linux exists in a huge load of distro's and no real standard here. LSB or not, you will have real pains in trying to install even between 2 distro's which should represent same branch of development on the major packages/apps. 2. Except few things there are still enough of the major libs which are not backwards compatible. Frequent install scenarios involve installing a newer lib as you need them for a new app and the lib changes some of the main links in your distro and breaks up a lot of other apps who stupidly refuse to run with updated libs. 3. BTW... Rethoric question: Who was the %&$&/ who hardcoded apps to not even try to run if the lib version mismatch?!? Ffs. Even if I got a 15% chance to succesfully run the app, let me do it. Warn me and let me decide if I want to experience a crash or kernel panic... :/ 4. With linux all the apps which are beyond the basic console editing (or at least most of them) is a hit and miss thing to install.... Oh well... My rant could continue, but I am tired and have to take a shower. Anyway, don't get me wrong. I am not bashing linux, I am just stating my frustration with linux. I've been working with it for the last 2 years on a constant base and at home I use it as firewall and application server, but for my desktop no go. When it's not a missing driver problem, there is a mismatching library, missing kernel patch, a dumb app who refuses even to try to start with new library, hours of search on the net to try and figure a long chain of dependencies... Thank God I am stubborn and don't give up easily. I curse linux every day, but don't want to give up. Still it would be nice if I could use more time with my needed apps instead of most of my free time to try to get them work... Best regards, Adrian P.S. I am a Mandrake Linux Club member and proud of it. :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rolf Pedersen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [expert] Ongoing libraries saga (e.g. qtopia, nagios, probably everything non-MDK) > stefmit wrote: > > On Sunday 15 June 2003 10:14 am, Rolf Pedersen wrote: > > > >>stefmit wrote: > >> > >>>I am making one last attempt with the great hope that someone, somewhere > >>>has figured this libraries issue out. Almost any program coming with > >>>libraries slightly different version than MDK ones fails to install, > >>>regardless of what I attempt to do. Last example is qtopia's RPM, which I > >>>NEED like air, for my Zaurus, but which install (unlike 9.0) breaks now > >>>in MDK9.1, with the following message: > >>> > >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] utilities]# urpmi qtopia-desktop-1.6.1-1.i386.rpm > >>>installing qtopia-desktop-1.6.1-1.i386.rpm > >>> > >>>Installation failed: > >>> libstdc++-libc6.1-2.so.3 is needed by qtopia-desktop-1.6.1-1 > >> > >>For this one: > >> > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] rolf]$ urpmf libstdc++-libc6.1-2.so.3 > >>dockingstation:/usr/games/dockingstation/games/dockingstation/libstdc++-li b > >>c6.1-2.so.3 > >>dockingstation:/usr/games/dockingstation/libstdc++-libc6.1-2.so.3 > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] rolf]$ urpmq --sources dockingstation > >>/dockingstation-195.64-1.i386.rpm > >> > >>When I get this sort of output, it means the package is on a Club source > >>and I have to be root to see the full url, which includes a password. > >>If you are not a Club member, you could try searching on dockingstation > >>or the library at rpmfind.net. > >> > >>Rolf > >>[..] > > > > > > Thank you for your suggestion. I know this may solve one spcific problem, but > > I not only mentioned a couple of programs, but rather was very much > > interested in resolving library issues in general. If the only solution would > > be to install every time another program (or others) which MAY be bundled > > with the missing library(ies) for the ones I need, then it sounds very ... > > Microsoft-like (install IE to be able to run dir ... ;)). There has to be a > > better way ... I hope ... > > > > Stef > > So far as I can see, qtopia-desktop is not provided by Mandrake. If > that is the case, it would be fortuitous that a Mandrake (Club) package > would provide the library you needed for it. Urpmi can only know about > what has been configured as its sources. It works well for what > Mandrake provides and what you can add to it. Mandrake cannot be > expected to anticipate the requirements of every possible third-party > program. > > The only other issue you cited, AFAICT, is that Mandrake's package of > nagios puts files in more than one directory: > > # rpm -qpl /backup/contrib/nagios-1.0b6-1mdk.i586.rpm > /etc/nagios > /etc/nagios/cgi.cfg > /etc/nagios/checkcommands.cfg > /etc/nagios/contactgroups.cfg > /etc/nagios/contacts.cfg > /etc/nagios/dependencies.cfg > /etc/nagios/escalations.cfg > /etc/nagios/hostgroups.cfg > /etc/nagios/hosts.cfg > /etc/nagios/misccommands.cfg > /etc/nagios/nagios.cfg > /etc/nagios/resource.cfg > /etc/nagios/services.cfg > /etc/nagios/timeperiods.cfg > /etc/rc.d/init.d/nagios > /usr/lib/nagios/plugins > /usr/sbin/nagios > /usr/share/doc/nagios-1.0b6 > /usr/share/doc/nagios-1.0b6/Changelog > /usr/share/doc/nagios-1.0b6/INSTALLING > /usr/share/doc/nagios-1.0b6/LEGAL > /usr/share/doc/nagios-1.0b6/README > /usr/share/doc/nagios-1.0b6/UPGRADING > /usr/share/doc/nagios-1.0b6/htaccess.sample > /var/log/nagios > /var/log/nagios/archives > > I am not sure what you are comparing to but this list does not seem > inconsistent with the typical Mandrake package, which should strive to > comply with LSB, which invokes FHS2.2: > > http://www.pathname.com/fhs/2.2/ > > Different entities have different interpretations/levels of interest in > complying with LSB, so you will have to deal with these inconsistencies. > Furthermore, contrib/ are considered unsupported, so, with all the > other concerns Mandrake has, I doubt that complaints about contrib/ > packages will receive a high priority. There is no comparison to > Windows. Linux is not Windows. What works in Windows is, usually, > irrelevant. You should put some effort into learning how Mandrake works > before you try to re-invent the wheel, IMO. > > Rolf > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com >
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
