Fine.
I'm not disagreeing. But I have a couple observations.
Now that Christmas ads are in full force, I noticed there is no reason for me to look at the software ads. Pre-linux I was always buying something, getting an upgrade to something. And that required more memory, more disk, more cpu. With Linux, everything I could want I installed when I installed the OS, or shortly thereafter. With windows I was always installing something. Now, I don't install stuff often.
Maybe I do disagree just a little bit ;-), as in "True, but. . ." When I have installed, for most products I could install through MCC. That's easier than InstallShield. For most others I've needed, there was a mandrake RPM. My point is, a pc-illiterate user (I don't think) will need an application that's only available in a tarball.
I have two pc's and a firewall pc, and since getting rid of windows my TCO has gone down - not only because of licensing fees but also my time. My kids are able to use linux without help from me (use, not administer) whereas with windows there were frequent corruption problems that I would have to resolve. Caused, in part, by them downloading screen savers, demos, games, malware, spyware, etc. This seems to be similar to Ronald's experience.
just my .02
Phil
Do they all have root password available so they can do updates,
reconfigure, build and install? These are things that are essentially handfed to windoze users. You click on an install button and app X is installed. Done. On linux this requires root. Simple enough if you are used to this but it is just another layer of complexity if you are a doze user.
Sure, this admin is everyone thing is one of the primary weaknesses of doze wrt viruses, worms, and hackers, but it is easier to work with.
My father can install a CD in his doze computer and click "Install" without problem. There would be problems if I had to walk him through setting up a root password (and remember it!), then a user password (remember it!). OK dad, setup your wireless connection. On doze this is trivial. On linux it is a frickin pain in the ass (I do it, after a modicum of hair pulling but then I know what I'm doing). You download your tarball, untar it, read the readme and install files. HOPEFULLY you will simply need to do a ./configure && make && make install (as root) and the driver will be ready. Now you just have to either mess with ugly commands via iwpriv or ifconfig. Depends on your device.
OK, now setup spam filtering. Hah! Joe Blow can't handle it. WE can because we have generally been doing this for some time AND we have the time and inclination to learn all of this. Add in procmail (and the need to setup postfix or similar. Whew! Complexity beyond anything people mess with in doze). Yes, linux is great and powerful. I love it. But I would never ever be able to get my father, mother, wife to deal with all this. And ya know, you just can't always be there to deal with other people's computers all the time. My father doesn't live next door, he lives next state over.
Unless Joe/Jane Blow user has an expert somewhere, they are not equipped to deal with linux. It's just that simple. And again, how do you explain to them that they'll just have to give up the cool games if they go linux? They LOVE the games afterall. OK, just reboot to winders. Well, why not just STAY in winders so you don't have to deal with the rebooting all the time?
I merely think that for MOST people at home, linux is not there yet. For people at work or at schools where there are admins to deal with all the complexity of configuring and handling software install, it is perfectly fine, but for most at home? Nope. Not yet.
On Sunday 09 November 2003 11:48 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:On Sun, 2003-11-09 at 11:02, Ronald J. Hall wrote:
> On Sunday 09 November 2003 09:24 am, Praedor Atrebates wrote:
> > Well, I gotta say that Redhat does have a point. I do think that linux
> > is not yet ready for the everyday desktop user except for Lindows - for
> > a relatively small subpopulation.
>
> Hmm, I disagree. My 10 and 12 year old (not to mention my wife) use
> Mandrake here with very few problems.
>
> Sure, my wife uses it almost exclusively for e-mail and web-browsing, but
> thats what the Windoze majority does anyways, right?
>
> and the boys use it mostly for games...again, following the norm.
>
> Most Windows users run to a local Windog guru when they have problems
> anyways, and thats what my crowd here does - run to me. So whats the
> diff? :-)
I've noticed the exact same thing, DL. In fact a young person I know recently told me that he could install and run Mandrake without trouble, yet couldn't seem to get winblowz to operate as easily, and deferred to a local shop for assistance in getting his winblowz to work correctly.
LX
-- Using Mandrake Linux 9.1 www.mandrakesoft.com
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