From: "Jay Novak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [F500] F500/F600 Proposal
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:55:10 -0400
Chris, I have to ask you; how many race cars have you built for sale to
customers? I have built & sold over 20 cars & while I agree with you that
you can build a roller for $15K at that price you will NOT be making any
kind of profit. So what this means is that Mike, Jay, Don C, Don H are
not
making any profit unless you want to count the $1 we pay ourselves /hour
of
labor.
To make a profit at $15K for rollers you have to build them in quantities
of
about 20 at a time & F500 will not support that kind of investment. The
most I ever built in 1 year was 6 cars & that nearly killed me.
Thanks ... Jay Novak
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris
Reinhardt
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 7:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [F500] F500/F600 Proposal
I don't agree Chuck, I think , sorry, I know, you can build a F5 roller
for
$15k and drop a motor in complete for another $5k or less. There's more
complexity in a DSR which equals more expense.....
CR
Chuck Voboril <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yup, Chris, that's right on the price, and it is worth every penny of
it.
Beautifullly made.
And the the dry sump is quiite a few grand more by itself, but out of the
9
R-1 MC motors that came with the purchase of Malloy and were run w/out dry
sumps, 7 are blown up now. Some had stock pans, some had special pans.
Practically anything you do to a F500 will raise the price.
Also, the fact that most, if not all, of the F500 mfg are not making a
true
living at it is one reason you are not paying $25k more per F500.
if ever there was a true US-based race car cottage industry, this is it!
Chuck Voboril
>From: Chris Reinhardt
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: [F500] F500/F600 Proposal
>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 04:44:46 -0700 (PDT)
>
> The F1000 also has a $32,995 sticker, and that's a roller.....
>
> CR
>
>Chuck Voboril wrote:
> Careful with the 13"s, the 10's are cheaper now than 13's and will
>probably
>stay that way since I have not heard of any eventual radial replacement
of
>10's as there is planned for 13's.
>
>20.5x7x13 and 22x8.2x13 radials are being tested further this year by
>Hoosier (FA sizes already released) and GY plans to replace almost all
13"
>bias plies with radials also.
>
>BTW, Isn't FF1600 also considering a 600cc or similar MC unit as a
>compatible alternative to the Ford 1600? What happened to that?
>
>
>
>I looked at a Phoenix F1000 today having its wheels aligned
>
>-that's a car I would like to be in if I were a young lion.
>
>Not too expensive to run, hopefully.
>By the rules, it has a stock internal R1 motor (except for the drysump,
>which is allowed).
>
>There doesn't look like any more fiberglass or CF, not any more frame
tubes
>to notch and weld in the construction.
>
>It has F1 styling like the Stohr.
>
>The F500 sidepods will keep F500/600 looking...well, F500/600 and a bit
>safer in close combat.
>A good thing for those aggressive young drivers :->
>
>-so what's the actual difference from a F500 with a stock bike motor to
>a
>F1000 with a stock bike motor like the Phoenix?
>
>The F1000 has:
>
>Shocks and coil springs
>13" wheels
>IRS
>Wings
>Less sidepod
>
>Underside aero allowances appear to be effectively the same as they are
>F500.
>
>
>Chuck
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Chris Reinhardt
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: RE: [F500] F500/F600 Proposal
> >Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:40:03 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> > Yes it got through, can Jim send it to eformulacar???
> >
> >CR
> >
> >John Walbran wrote: -----Original Message-----
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 2:15 PM
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: [F500] F500/F600 Proposal
> >
> >
> >I am not sure whether or not this e mail is getting through to the
class
>so
> >I will send it again. If you have already recd it I apologize for the
> >duplicate.
> >
> >
> >In regards to the survivial and growth of the F500 class some major
>changes
> >have to occur. I agree it should be a 600cc motorcycle engine with 6
>speed
> >sequential gearbox. I agree with Jack Walbran that the dyno work
> >should
>be
> >done so as the speed performance is in line with where we are now with
>the
> >493/494 if not a little stronger. Clints 493 is running down top run
off
> >Fords in a straight line. I would also like to see a spec shock spring
>and
> >I
> >would take Jacks suggestion one step further and allow 13" wheels.
This
> >would
> >bring the Goodyear compounds back into play. The cars need to look
larger
> >to
> >be more appealing to bring in new drivers, and some of us are growing
> >sideways
> >and need some more room. All of the larger Formula cars, FSCCA ,
> >F1000,
>FC
> >are
> >all in the $50,000.00 range. We need a car that is not much more than
>what
> >we
> >are paying now with no wings as an affordable entry level car and
> >still
>be
> >the
> >best bang for the buck. Our Invaders were over $20,000.00. Of the 7
Mike
> >sold, 6 were to us. 5 are for sale now and I am not getting any calls
>which
> >is
> >why we are having this discussion. There is no interest from new
drivers.
> >There was a lot of talk on Apex concerning the F1000 because the cost
> >immediately went too high and eliminated lots of prospective buyers
thus
> >the
> >need for an affordable wingless formula car. Our present manufacturers
> >without
> >too many changes could make these changes and do it affordable. A
> >600cc
> >Honda
> >will fit in the Invader with only changing the rear shock location.
> >13"
> >wheels
> >and tires are only 1 or 2 inches more in overall circumference to our
19"
> >tire.
> >
> >Having been active in this class since 1989, even though it is the
>biggest
> >bang
> >for the buck, it has not drawn enough new participants to keep the
class
> >alive
> >and the reasons for that, as I stated above, the cars are a little too
> >small,
> >you cannot shift them and they are extremely high maintenance
> >vehicles.
>We
> >work on them constantly while at the track. I have been asked
> >thousands
>of
> >times, why are you guys always working on your cars? A massed
produced
> >motorcycle engine, transmission chain drive to a solid axle would make
it
>a
> >lot
> >less tedious during the weekends, maybe we would even make it to the
>social
> >for
> >a cold one.
> >
> >Going along the F1000 rules, any 600cc motorcycle engine can be used
> >in
> >stock
> >configuration with limited modifications, to the oil pan for clearance
> >purposes
> >and an open air intake system. I agree the dry sump system is the best
>but
> >I
> >presently have a Dsports with a modified oil pan for wet sump and he
has
> >run
> >it
> >for 2 years with no problem and just received brand new Stohr F1000
with
>a
> >Billet oil pan wet sump also.
> >
> >Right now you can only buy Formula Vee or Formula 500 for under
>$20,000.00.
> >Formula Fords are over $30,000.00 and we go faster than most of them
and
> >then
> >you jump up to the $50,000.00 range. If we could get a car as fast as
the
> >top
> >F500 guys are running, which is faster than most of the Fords this
>packaged
> >with a low cost mass produced motorcycle motor, the option of a paddle
> >shifter and no CVT to work on you would attract a lot of newcomers who
> >cannot
> >afford $50,000.00 for what is available now.
> >
> >Projecting out a few years I see only these Formula Classes at the
>runoffs,
> >Formula Vee, this new class F5/6?, F1000, Formula SCCA, FC and FA.
>Without
> >some major changes you will be racing against 1, 2 possibly 3 other
guys
>at
> >regional events only. I have always been a strong supporter of this
class
> >but
> >there is no fun in it when you are only racing one other person. At
> >our
> >first
> >2 winter nationals we had 3 starters at Sebring and 4 starters at
> >Homestead.
> >These numbers speak for themselves. At our first regional at Sebring
>there
> >were only 3 F500s, 2 of which were Dolphins. The 3 F500s out
> >qualified
>the
> >Spec Racers but they split started them because there were 45 of them
so
> >they
> >put us in the back with the 6 Formula Vees. The spec racers are doing
> >something right. These cars are over $30,000.00 and are a lot slower
than
> >ours
> >but continue to attract new people. All they do is gas and go all
>weekend.
> >For $30,000.00 I would rather be driving an F600. And by the way, the
>young
> >driver who works with us , Matt Strand, did pass all 45 of the Spec
>Racers
> >to
> >get the overall win in just his second race.
> >
> >As for advertising we have advertised heavily in print as well as e
> >magazine
> >s
> >and got little response from the karters. They were not interested in
>F500
> >once they turned 16. If they could afford it they went into wings and
> >things
> >not 500s. All this being said does not end what is presently in place.
If
> >those who want to run what we have now 493/494 CVT thats ok too, but
lets
> >try
> >something new. The present package only appeals to a few. We need to
> >attract
> >new drivers. And remember, nothing changes if nothing changes.
> >
> >P.S. Check out www.formulajedi.com its a F600 class in the U.K.
> >
> >Jim Elder
> >Dolphin Motorsports
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
> > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
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