Jay, I have information from 3 franchise Suzuki dealers from different parts of the country (one of who called Suzuki corporate to verify) that you can't, and never could buy, a complete crate 600cc bike motor. You can buy parts and build a new engine, but you can't buy one "complete".
What am I missing here? Art -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay Novak Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [F500] Apples to Apples Pricing I have tried mightily with every single manufacturer to get an engine deal done but there is ZERO interest. If it was not for Tony Murphy we would have had no motors ever. The latest 600cc 2 strokes all make 125 hp. Thanks ... Jay Novak -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chuck Voboril Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 1:17 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [F500] Apples to Apples Pricing Jay, my real questioin is why not pursue Japanese 2-strokes like the Suzuki/Artic Cat? Same mfg as your GSXR600. I think that Austria might be the problem, not so much the stroke or production numbers. John at Northern says the late model salvage yard 600cc FI motors go for about $1000. each. Harness, ECU etc. included. Chuck >From: "Jay Novak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: [F500] Apples to Apples Pricing >Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 00:59:47 -0400 > >I agree Chuck, a 2 stroke should be WAY LESS MONEY than the more >mechanically complex 4 strokes. The question is why aren't they? The >latest 493 Rotax was being sold for about $3300 & you did not get >carbs, exhaust, clutches, nothing but the basic engine. This is the >real reason people were not happy with the 493 in my opinion. Rotax >upped the price because we were a captive market with no other choice. > >Thanks ... Jay Novak > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of >Chuck Voboril >Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 11:44 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: [F500] Apples to Apples Pricing > > >Jay, there is definitely ecomony to be had with the mass production and >poularity of the Japanese motors. > >But perhaps that just points out fact that the class probably should >have looked at Japanese rather than Austrian 2-strokes in recent years. > >The latest japanese 600cc snowmobile motors are popular also and much >more simple than a 4-stroke to rebuild. > >Why shouldn't a Suzuki snowmobile engine be even cheaper than a Suzuki >MC motor to buy and maintain? They may not make as many of them-but >they sure have a ton less moving parts to assemble and adjust. > >Chuck > > > > > > >From: "Jay Novak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: [F500] Apples to Apples Pricing > >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:21:21 -0400 > > > >Chuck, I know you are opposed to this direction. I have also been > >concerned about costs but I am now convinced that there are multiple > >sources for engines & rebuilds that are very much in line with the > >numbers I have posted. I have found multiple sources that will do > >complete 600cc >rebuilds > >with all new pistons, rings, bearings & valves for $1500. This is > >extremely reasonable IMHO. > > > >Additionally there are multiple mini sprint santioning bodies that > >have bone stock classes & they do not seem to have problems keeping > >things legal. > >F1000 has a stock engine rule. I have spoken to George Dean who is > >one >of > >the most respected engine tuners in the business & he says that if > >you >use > >the stock ECU & aftermarket exhaust you can get an additional 5 hp on > >the 1000 & about 3 hp on the 600 engines. Much more hp is available > >with significant engine modifications and aftermarket ECUs. These > >will not be legal if the 600cc engines are ever approved. > > > >I suggest that you let this play out to see what happens. > > > >Thanks ... Jay Novak > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > >Chuck Voboril > >Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:45 AM > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: [F500] Apples to Apples Pricing > > > > > >The prices that we have so far for GSXR600's do NOT appear to be > >factory >or > >factory dealer list prices. > > > >Those are salvage yard prices. See Jay's post on the Eformula site. > > > >If we want to play that game, the price on a low mileage Suzuki 600 > >2-stroke with EFI and ECU is a in the $1000 category. I checked this > >AM with a dealer in Thief River Falls where the factory salvage yard > >is. > > > > > >Rebuild prices have not been compared properly yet either. > > > >2-stroke rebuild parts have to be cheaper then MC parts since the >2-strokes > >mainly only need 2 sets of rings and 2 pistons/pins, not 4 ring sets > >and piston/pins+ 20 valves and valve seats plus cam parts and many > >more seals and bearings. 4 throw crank and 4 rods isn't cheap either > >if you need go that far. > > > >Freshening up a 20 valve MC motor has to always include doing 20 > >valves >and > >seats also. Then setting valve lash on all valves and retiming both cams. >+ > >new timing chain/belt. > > > >Chuck > > > >-- > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/752 - Release Date: > >4/8/2007 > >8:34 PM > > > >-- > >No virus found in this outgoing message. > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/752 - Release Date: > >4/8/2007 > >8:34 PM > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.2.0/757 - Release Date: >4/11/2007 >5:14 PM > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.2.0/757 - Release Date: >4/11/2007 >5:14 PM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.2.0/757 - Release Date: 4/11/2007 5:14 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. 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