--- In [email protected], "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In [email protected], akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In [email protected], "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > --- In [email protected], "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], akasha_108 > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > [...] > > > > > > > > The water, > > > > > Awareness is not noticably affected by the infusion of mud. > its > > > > this quality that I see lacking in many reports of so called > > higher states. And in some behaviors. > > > > > > > > > > > > Very good point. > > > > > > > But what behaviors show enlightenment? > > > > The discussion is not about enlightnement. Indeed I find it > pointless > > to discuss something that no one on the list appears to be able to > or > > willing to clearly and conisely define the term as they mean it or > > experience it. Other than Peter, who did offer up a nice concise > > personal definition -- but even he appears unwilling or unable to > > answer a simple follow-up question: is this attribute both necessary > > and sufficient? > > > > The above discussion is about an experience that may or may not have > > anything to do with enlightenment but is something I think many have > > experienced. Yet, I noted with interest, many /most enlightenment > > proponents do not include such descriptions in their discourses. > > > > The point was that some behaviors -- such as outburst of anger and > > frustration -- are counter to the experience of a substantial depth > of > > Awareness present along with activity. The analogy used, which to me > > is very experientially real, parallel to the analogy, is that of a > > lake (corresponding to Awareness) -- when it is deep, mud that > enters > > does not muddy the water and the water is still appreciated as clean > > and pure. > > > > Some will argue "Consciusness / Awareness has Nothing to do with > > behaviors such as anger!" I counter that yes that is true when the > > lake is shallow -- building on the analogy -- but there is a > noticible > > lessening of such behavior when the lake becomes deeper. > > Perhaps, but you can't be sure. There may be situations where the > only appropriate response is extreme anger [-appearance] and violent > activity (Jesus and the money-changers in the temple, for instance).
Agreed. I am not postulating an absolute or universal rule based on one person's experience (mine). As Irmeli points out, there is a healthy anger that sets boundaries. I am just pointing out my experience that in situations where anger used to bubble up and manifest (and I am a pitta, fiery chart sort of guy, i know about anger), most of the time now it can't get enough heat to turn to fire. The "deep lake" of Awareness thing I was trying to describe. When I see some that talk alot about their enlightenment, and then fairly regularly "over the top" outbursts occur -- not having to do with rightous indignation or setting boundaries -- it makes me wonder if they experience the same "deep lake" effect that I do. From the manifest behavior (and from that truly no one can be sure) it appears they don't have that (lake effect). So it causes me to wonder how "profound" their enlightenment is. If their enlightenment is simply the experience of no "I", and doesn't include things like the lake effect, non-ownership, compassion, it seems sort of like a shallow enlightenment. But then, as I have stated, I think the whole practice adn mind-set of labeling, categorizing and evaluating people and experiences by A & E terms is not productive, even detrimental. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
