Re: [FairfieldLife] Maharishi effect (was Re: Unprecedented Nature Support?)

[Llundrub]

----- Original Message ----- From: Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Maharishi effect (was Re: Unprecedented Nature Support?) On Jul 9, 2004, at 6:04 PM, Llundrub wrote: >  I can't see how the ME could > really work--it lacks the correct motivation--it lacks bodhichitta. > > > ----Vaj, sometimes you surprise me at your anti - TMness. Getting > together in huge groups to pacify war and bring about positivity is > ipsoo facto Bodhicitta. Moreover, the shakti generated is also > Bodhicitta. So where is there not bodhicitta? Just stating the facts       ------In conceptuality there's facts but no truth,  but rather just an exchange of concepts, one set for another.       --esp. in regards to how they came out on this list. We have first hand accounts of how the TMSP came about and why.     ------Nothing is as simple as it seems especially as it comes out on a listserv.     Honestly I think these are questions you need to find for yourself. What is Bodhichitta?   ------In having groups of meditators to create coherence for society is aspirational bodhicitta, and in the generation of soma through the digestion and samadhi is white bodhicitta.  Not sure about red bodhicitta in TMO. All tapas since it spreads entraining brainwave coherence is engaged bodhicitta. But the groups of meditators strategically placed at various times in the TMO were engaged bodhicitta. The fact that Maharishi wiill stop at nothing to somehow create a group of meditators by hook or crook shows an ultimate bodhicitta on his part.  And the sheer existance of THP proves that many are willing to sacrifice all for this engaged bodhicitta. Jjust because they have no earthly idea what the dictionary definition of bodhicitta means nothing, just as a baby crying still crys even though it doesn't know it's crying.     Can it be obtained through mediation on worldly deities?   ------TM isn't meditation of worldly deities, nor is it meditation on Bija mantras since the TM mantras have more than one syllable.  Maybe you have not looked into your Shitro mandala, or Kalachakra mandala but all the Hindu deities have become protectors and have become liberated. I am looking right now at the name of Mahalakshmi in the Long Kalachakra Body Speech and Mind Sadhana of the Seventh Dalai Lama.       How is it applied at the level of tantra (which is where levitation would be as Path)?     -----Levitation is one sutra.  Not really understanding the question. If noone is levitating it's sort of moot anyway. Also most so-called Bodhisattvas are sort of not really being supportive of others as more invaluable than themselves so being a Bodhisattva is moot as well.      Does the TMSP even follow the Bodhichiita of intention?     ------First three sutras would seem to say yes. Perhaps you forget that the sutras work wholistically since they are not utilized with specific intent, they therefore spread the value uncovered to every aspect of ones sphere of influence. It's not like one levitates to trick people or be a jerk. One levitates (as if) in order to stabilize samadhi, or experience of shunyata. Intention is at the basis of bodhicitta and bodhicitta really means more than anything awakened mind, and so as such the direct experience of shunyata through such techniques at the TMSP are invaluable to bodhicitta, not subtractive.      Is so, how does it apply and attain the four immeasurables?     ------Obviously by eradicating disease on the level of the physiology for one, by creating a macroscopic coherent field effect for others for two, by supplying samadhi which is nirvana for three and finally by directing the mind to formless bliss which is free of attachment and aversion for four.   By making the senses and breath finer one becomes more sensitive to oneself and the environment and therefore more able to not harm the aggregates, by supporting the cessation of experience in samadhi one turns the 12 links back to their source, by becoming aware of oneself as emptiness of all qualities in the Absolute all of life becomes the play of the one empty now, one becomes the dakini. I see this constantly in the continual word games here at FFLIFE.  It's not like there's a smidgen of substance in anything ever written here. And when one forgets this then there's always Wolfloops I mean Lupidus, I mean RG, to bring the focus back.   While I don't expect anyone to take anything someone else states for granted, I suspect you would come to similar conclusions if you investigate this on your own, with your own experience.     -------You really can't know my experience, especially as I meditated in the domes for four years which was probably more profound than meditating alone, and you know not which stars I wished for or what my aspirations were.  But I can tell you this. My bodhicitta was purer then than ever after.   What blows my mind is how clinging and attached to namarupa most Dzogpachenpos I have talked to seem.  Not a one of you that I have met can even understand that Shiva and Samanthabadra are one.  So how can you find unity anywhere else?  I have a quote for you from the Vajra Heart Tantra of Dudjom Lingpa:   In the past you have grasped onto samsara and nirvana, the animate and inanimate universe, and all sensory objects as being truly existent, not knowing the manner in which they are not established. Now, as a result of knowing that, there is no awareness other than coming to rest in the nature of reality. There is no so-called Severance apart from the severance of clinging onto the appearances of the three realms, which brings about Severance to the absolute nature of identitylessness. This very ground of the three realms, which is ethically neutral, limpid, and clear, is called Isvara Mahadeva. His body appears as the desire realm; his speech appears as the form realm; and his mind appears as the formless realm. The five sensory faculties emerge from the essential nature of his six types of consciousness. Devas, matrkas, raksasas, and the  eight classes of mattas emerge from the luster of his eight types of consciousness. The higher classes of gods and demons emerge from the coarse arrays of his thoughts included among the 84,000 mental afflictions. Vighnas, pisacas, raksasas, and bhutas emerge from the arrays of subtle thoughts. Flesh as earth, blood as water, [135] warmth as fire, and breath as air maintain the body comprised of the four elements. Empty space manifests as the mind, and embodiments of subtle arrays of thoughts emanate as various forms of sentient beings. Therefore, the cause of a deity resides in the total ground of sentient beings. Emptiness is apprehended as form, and form is brought to mind. In order to refresh one's recollection of it without forgetting it, it is constantly invoked by name. By repeatedly visualizing many such forms dissolving from the domain of the five elements, one achieves a little stability in the visualized objects. By so doing, mental forms will empirically be actualized in accordance with one's visualization. As a consequence of grasping onto the true Page 90 existence of empty space, the empirical actualization of the entire phenomenal universe is unquestionably an apparition of a single type of grasping. Actualizing a deity from the realm in which the deity is not established comes about due to the ignorance of one's own ground acting as the cause of the entire realm of the deity. Thus, with that very cause the mind presents and imagines the deity as a form. As a result, it is actualized in no more than two or three months. If there were some substantial deity apart from that, it would be actualized by one person invoking it; but it is easy to determine that no one achieves the deity other than the individual who has actualized it. If there were no cause of a deity, [136] it would not be actualized even if one tried. That can certainly be understood by taking a close look at mundane activities. Son of good breeding, the quintessence of the Tantra of the Black Apparitions of Isvara is none other than this. If this is not realized, even if you try to actualize a deity, it will be difficult to succeed. Know that the lack of success would be like that of a person shouting into an empty valley and counting the times he does so. Because he is in control of the three realms, he is the basis of the three realms. He is rich in his enjoyment of emanating the three domains of existence. The facet of clarity of his nature is the great differentiation of samsara and nirvana. With in-dwelling, originally present, primordial wisdom as the cause, the bodily aspect of the apparitional Black Protector Mahakala appears and comes into existence. The realm of his speech consists of spontaneous displays. The realm of his mind is empty and clear. All the Dharmas of the path and fruition emanate from the aspect of his excellent qualities. The emanating appearances of all the Protector Father Tantras from the aspect of his enlightened activities are of the nature of skillful means; and all the Goddess Mother Tantras emanate from the aspect of the wisdom of emptiness.      ----To continually reify the notions of worldly, and Buddha, empty and so on is a huge mistake of the mind.  Divinity alone exists and nothing else.   To get suckered into a dictionary definition of Dzogchen merely makes one a puppet and not one of great thought or insight. You can in other words, take the three bodies of the Buddha and shove them.  Because where you find them not, I still will find them in The Trinity, in the Rishi, Devata, and Chandas, in the Ain, Ain Soph, and Ain Soph Aur, and in simple samadhi, as well as in the Trikaya. I will find them everywhere and lose them nowhere. All your discriminations to me are newspaper for starting a fire.       On the other hand I well know ego will want to acquire as it's own anything it once had. Therefore I never find it surprising when someone tries to fudge some previous practice they did as part of another very different path.       -------As a Dzogpochenpo I always find you confusing all the yanas at whim merely to befuddle others but you can't hem me in in any way, because first, I don't play other people's games, second, my mind isn't conditionable because I'm a horrible student, and finally, when I sit in samadhi for two hours whatever concepts I went in with cease. Your arguing with me is like you shouting into a gale. Nothing remains.   -----But finally, there is no base, path or fruit in Dzogchen. Those terms are only used to clarify the utter lack of the three in rigpa. To consider them as existing at all is reification and is a huge mistake of the mind and means one is merely thinking and not practicing. I think you're just fudging Kirk. Perhaps we should all just sit around a campfire and sing 'Kum By Yah" and everything will be better?     -----I hate for it to come to this, but you don't know me. All you know is what you've read. I also don't know you.  What's bizarre to me is that I asked you to join this group after we corresponded at Atiyoga because I felt that many members of the TMO who were falling out needed some compassion and a new source of wisdom, they didn't need a fucking know-it-all-prick who makes the Buddha Dharma seem fascist, fascile and purile. I'm not necessarily "anti-TM" but I'm also not going to lie about what I see.     ------In all your mental divisions are the seeds of samsara, not in the TM technique or the Siddhis. I mean, come on Man, step the bullshit down a notch. It lacks compassion making everyone else seem like they have dogshit for brains. Get a fucking clue. And you're lecturing me about bodhicitta.    You know, it blows me away still that tantrics see their deities as treading Shiva and Shakti. I have to constantly tell people that the Buddhas depend upon Shiva and Shakti which is why they stand upon them. Without Shiva and Shati there is no life and no tantra.  It's all in dependent origination.  What's so difficult to understand?  TM Mantras are Sri in her many forms - Shakti.  They are secret mantra Dude. They are tummo, and vase breathing, and trekcho and tsogel all in one.  Because Shakti is everything that anyone could ever understand. Shakti alone is the Dakini. I hope you find this out someday. It makes one alot less lonely.   Finally to think there was a practitioner before who wasnt practicing and a practitioner now who is is not Dzogchen.  More yantra yoga Dude ;) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web.    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.