You are right, I loved Osho because he was not into avatar, infallible crap. He always said he was as fallible as anyone else, he clearly illustrated the qualities of the outer and the inner, the difference between the essential and accidental. No one has influenced me more than Osho, what I liked about him was his brutal honesty without caring for the need to sound holy and respectable and this is one of the qualities that I try to emulate because it matches my samskara.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1" <steve.sundur@...> wrote: > > > I know you are somewhat "into" Osho, and I have to say, that although I > know little about him, the one thing that I've always enjoyed is that he > seems real upfront about who he is, and his lifestyle. Didn't seem to > hide behind a lot of sanctimonious crap. Like I say, I've only seen a > handful of videos and a few of the writings, but I like what I saw. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1" <steve.sundur@> > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Yogi" raviyogi@ wrote: > > Thanks for your reply. Well you are right. There are so many issues, > > and so many ways to interpret them. As you say, what one sees as > > deception, may just be an attempt not to confuse by another. What one > > sees as worship, may just be symbolism for another. So, as Rick > pointed > > out, and I guess Peter, you just navigate through, and pick out what > > works for you and what doesn't. Definitely a caveat emptor type > > sitiuation. I have to say though, IMHO, I see the "gurus" often having > > a hard time resisting some of the perks that accompany their fame, > > fortune and power. I mean, I think, a really hard time. But that's > > okay, because it doesn't affect me, and people,of course, are free to > > act and believe as they see fit. > > > Steve - you don't have to worship her. I have never worshiped Amma > nor > > > did I see her as my Guru for a long time. I was among those who had > no > > > particular fascination for Devi Bhava, I loved Amma and would always > > > complain to people around me that I didn't like Amma dressed in a > > > colorful sari with a crown, I would even say I hate it. So to say > that > > > its a cult and everyone worships her is just so totally false, I'm a > > > prime example of that - if it was a cult a person like who revels in > > > shocking and mocking others would not have been entertained. > > > In fact I used to detest the cult like behavior of certain people at > > > Amma's but now I have to come to understand that people when they > come > > > to spirituality comes with issues of hurt, pain and betrayal. They > > find > > > that the outside world and objects don't seem to give the > everlasting > > > happiness. Obviously these people are very sensitive and loving are > > not > > > happy with the superficial toys of money, house, spouse and a couple > > of > > > kids. They feel the need to be loved, long to be part of a group > that > > > can accept them for who they are. They may get Hindu names, they may > > > wear saris/dhotis, bindis - they are very enthusiastic and think > > > spirituality means aping certain outer manners and behavior. But > this > > is > > > all optional, Amma never insists on that. They slowly realize that > the > > > outer has no significance to the inner but this takes time so we > can't > > > just judge. > > > In fact the article is just BS, sure they might downplay Devi Bhava, > I > > > can see why even I, being an Indian am highly uncomfortable with the > > > Devi Bhava but the important thing it is not because of *malice*, it > > is > > > not *deception* - they are just downplaying it for the Western > > audience, > > > it is just being practical and pragmatic. The western audience > > wouldn't > > > necessarily understand that the Devi is just a symbol for the > supreme > > > consciousness that pervades one and all. Once they love Amma and > > > understand the Hindu concepts they slowly start understanding the > > Hindu > > > principles, but these concepts are not mainstream, very few > Westerners > > > understand it so it makes sense to downplay it. Its very hard for > > > Westerners who are conditioned by the Judeo-Christian concepts and > who > > > have no prior knowledge of Eastern traditions to understand Devi > Bhava > > > even before they come to meet Ammachi, > > > The article makes it sound as if this is deceptive without actually > > > saying that because they know they can't say that word, so they use > > > innuendo to manipulate the readers into believing there is malice > and > > > deception. The article and the authors of it are being very > deceptive. > > > Sure depending on the samskara of a devotee she might declare > herself > > an > > > avatar, a devi but then people miss the point. An awakened Guru is a > > > manifestation of the supreme consciousness and the supreme > > consciousness > > > can take any form based upon the samskara of a person hence millions > > of > > > deities in Hinduism. The number of dieties in Hinduism is just a > > > metaphor, that each to his own - that each has his own unique path, > > that > > > the supreme consciousness is so mysterious and powerful that it can > > > manifest in a unique way for each individual. This symbolism is > > powerful > > > and unique to Hinduism. This shows that Hinduism is really not a > > > religion, it is called Sanatana Dharma, the eternal law - it is > purely > > a > > > recognition and celebration of the individual and his/her unique > path > > to > > > self-realization. > > > > > >
