--- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@...> 
wrote:
>
> -- In [email protected], maskedzebra <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > I am, via your post, alerted to the contingent solipsistic 
> > tendency in me—I have never shaken this since I was a small 
> > child. But you are the first person on this blog to convince 
> > me I should be aware of the need to mortify this temptation 
> > whenever my putative enlightenment is undergoing a vivisection.
> 
> It kind of comes with the territory of discussing your 
> experience doesn't it?  I wasn't suggesting that you were 
> more that way than I would be if I were doing the same. It 
> wasn't as pointed as that. I was speculating on why Turq's 
> reaction was different than my own in relating to you here.  
> I could understand why he went that way, but for me it is 
> not how I believe I will get the most from our interaction.  
> I would never take part in a vivisection of someone's 
> important inner life.  

I'm curious, Curtis, as to whether you think that's
what I was doing -- trying to slice and dice his 
"important inner life." From my side, what I thought
I was doing was saying that I didn't CARE much about
his inner life, and that it wasn't important to me.

As for vivisecting claims of supposed higher states
of consciousness, Yes, I sometimes indulge in that
(although I don't think I was in this case). I find 
it's an interesting way to see whether someone who
claims to have achieved a state beyond ego or small
self or whatever can walk the talk of their claim.

As we have seen in the past, some can and some can't.

I think that Tom Traynor did a pretty good job of
presenting himself as somewhat self realized on this
forum, without feeling the need to lash out at those
who might not either buy it or be impressed by it. I
think that Dr. Pete, in the rare times that he's made
suggestions about where he's at, has similarly mainly
walked his talk. I think that Rory, in his most recent
appearance on this forum (as opposed to his earlier 
playdates) did a pretty good job of keeping it in his
pants, emotional-reaction-wise. 

Others...uh...not so much. As I've said before, I don't
think we can "vivisect" what is essentially unprovable.
Those who claim to be in higher states of consciousness
are undoubtedly having *some* experience. What it is 
neither I nor (in my opinion) they can really say. It's
when they (as blastedactresses has pointed out so well
recently) try to turn their subjective experiences into
some kind of "truth" or pronouncement that I might be
tempted to have a little "Let's poke at the supposedly
enlightened person and see if there's really no self
in there or whether there's a really BIG one waiting
to lash out in defensiveness and anger" fun with them.

Like blastedactresses, I do not buy that anyone can
extrapolate from their subjective experience something
called truth. In my view, whatever they experience is
nothing more -- or less -- than subjective experience.
As such, there is nothing that I or anyone else can say
to prove or disprove it. 

When they cross the line from relating a subjective 
experience to making pronouncements about what that
experience "means," and calling those pronouncements
"truth," I might try to remind them that what they're
saying may be nothing more than opinion, and thus no
more "truth" than anyone else's opinion. ANYONE 
else's opinion. And that includes supposed holy men
from the present or past. I don't swing behind the
idea that ANY of their opinions is "truth." 



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