--- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> --- In [email protected], "Patrick Gillam"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Question below.
> >
> > authfriend wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't think you'd care for him much. Here's his
> > > description of one of the teachers who works with
> > > Saniel Bonder, from the Web site:
> >
> > What follows sounds like a great way to interact with people.
> > Why do you say "I don't think you'd care for him much," Judy?
> > Are you being sarcastic?
> >
> > Densely,
> >
> > Patrick Gillam
>
> I was going to comment at the time you posted this, Patrick,
> that what I thought was going on was that Judy had had her
> buttons pushed by something I said, and was trying to start a
> thread that would give her a chance to retaliate by dumping
> on me.
>
> As it turns out, that's exactly how it turned out. :-)
<horselaugh>
Barry, I hate to tell you this, but everything is *not*
about you.
In fact, what I posted was a continuation, from my
perspective, of the discussion I'd been having with
Rory. I had taken a look at Krishna Gauci's Web site,
seen that quote and thought it was a propos--an actual
(presumably) enlightened person echoing what I'd been
saying--and was then looking for an appropriate context
in which to post it here.
You were by no means the only person who had reacted
negatively to what I had said to Rory. You just
happened to be the first of these to make a comment
about Gauci; you were just a convenient vehicle. If
you felt dumped on, that reaction belongs to you, not
to me.
In response to Patrick, I cited two "anti-" quotes
(or paraphrases), one from you and the other from
Rory. I could have cited several others, but those
were the two that came immediately to mind, yours
because it had been relatively recent, and Rory's
because it referred to the specific experience of
mine I had been grousing about with him.
> Little did I know that the thing that set her off was me merely
> pointing out the obvious (from one spiritual point of view),
Nope, wasn't what "set me off," sorry.
> that Maharishi's theory of enlightenment being "blocked*
> by "stress" is just an intellectual excuse that those who
> believe themselves unenlightened can cling to to preserve
> their illusion of unenlightenment.
Or, it can be something they see as a practical
means for realizing their enlightenment, which
might otherwise seem like an impossible dream.
Of course, this all begs the question of whether
stress *does* get in the way of realization, and
whether releasing it facilitates realization.
(It isn't only MMY's idea, of course; the notion of
the need to get rid of impurities and samskaras is
deeply rooted in the yogic tradition. "Stress" is
just a convenient modern English term for it.)
<snip>
> "Bad stress. Evil stress. If it weren't for stress, I'd be
> enlightened."
Another useful aspect of the stress/samskaras idea is
to convey to the student that while it's their
responsibility to get rid of it, they aren't to blame
for having accumulated it in the first place. This
can be potentially liberating.
<snip>
> P.S. In case you've never encountered it, one approach that
> is sometimes taken by some spiritual teachers when dealing
> with students who have established a history of clinging to
> their stories is to poke fun at the student for doing so. Since
> this number has been run on me many times, I can attest that
> sometimes it works, and the student actually makes a break-
> through and laughs at him self or her self and the stories no
> longer have any power over them. Sometimes all it does is
> reinforce the stories and make the student angry. Basically,
> for both student and teacher, it's a crapshoot...you never know
> how it's going to turn out.
I'd suggest that being able to correctly determine
how it's going to turn out is the sign of a good
teacher ("skillful means" and all that).
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