Hey Edg, Nice post. I especially liked part
That is something I've never thought of. Now, at the risk of sounding stupid, is this sort of the encapsulated version of "Advaita". I've never really understood it before, or had the motivation to try to figure it out. But you've come up with such a concise description, that I can get my head around it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: > > Mjackson740, > > I think any "intent" is devolving, but if one is going to insist on being "one," (an individuality) then bhakti is probably a safe way to spend your "identity dollar." Ramana Maharshi says that the mantra must be accompanied by the devotional substrate-dynamic, so I'm going to go with that opinion, but note that Ramana rejects all techniques as secondary compared to direct realization of the Self. > > To ask "Who am I?" instantly dissolves the ego to insignificance when it simply cannot be found! This method tricks the mind by giving it a ghost to seek when it wants to invest in an identification. And with identification "in hand," so to speak, without an object of consciousness to assign as "hey, that there is 'me,'" there's a chance then that identity itself -- as a process of the mind -- ceases, and that's a very good thing if you ask me. > > Now, if one uses the heart to get to that doorway instead, I cannot gripe. The heart finds the divine and swoons into to it leaving the soul, like Japanese sandals on the doorstep, behind. > > Thorn to remove a thorn -- be an individual but only so that there's "someone to love God," yes, that works, and then, if successful, one can remain a devotee in an ocean of unity, or one can go all the way to full Godship -- that is, beyond God-the-manifest. > > Note that the monsters of evil, when they attacked Krishna, were instantly enlightened -- that is, Krishna stomped them into such a mush that identification could no longer find purchase, and they were, as if, returned to the unmanifest -- free of all evil attachments. > > A hard path, the dark side is. -- Yoda > > As for becoming heartless due to TM not having a devotional dynamic, hmmmm, not so much. Maybe, but not sure, cuz I "work the heart" in daily life, so maybe most folks get enough exercise that way to balance TM's lack of it.....???? > > Edg > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: > > > > Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in the process of processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last months - I have tired also to make that point that if TM is actually as effective why do so many people quit? Why do so many people who do TM long term act like asses or become completely ineffective in life? Not everyone, but a lot do. > > > > I appreciate your posting these words. > > > > I was re-reading part of Earl Kaplan's letter and want to know what you think of this part: > > > > > > "One other important point is that the mechanical repetition > > of a mantra without meaning or devotion brings no spiritual progress > > whatsoever. This point is referred to in the yoga sutras and in many > > discussions of great spiritual teachers. The mechanical repetition of some > > meaningless word brings no opening of the heart, no love in one's life, and no > > unfoldment of true spiritual values. > > Haven't you ever > > wondered why so many people in the TM movement seemed so heartless, especially > > the administrators the early courses? It was because their mechanical > > repetition of a meaningless word was actually closing their heart, not opening > > it. That is why so many people in the TM movement have suffered a sort of > > disassociation with so much of their life where they don't have the same > > feelings they used to. It's not because they are more highly evolved, it is > > because they are disconnected from their hearts." > > > > What do you think about this? > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:15 AM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks > > > > > > Â > > What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion? > > > > Of course I'm an asshole -- everyone is. > > > > And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, 44,000 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a "nothing technique" that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the movement's leaders? If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, then these leaders are leaders of a movement that is offering a technique that doesn't work -- so they're frauds -- or, as I have said: ASSHOLES! > > > > Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded? > > > > These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, dismissive, and on and on. Not always, but often. Not to me personally, so much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW. > > > > One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing something -- like a Nazi SS. Which reminds me of this time I personally walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, and he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the check and leave his office. Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him. > > > > I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net worth each. All of them strutted around like feudal lords....not even nice to their wives. > > > > It's the money -- it corrupts......corrupts everyone. Even a person making $30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the streets.....like that, the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself real. BAH! > > > > And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and privilege to the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et alia. > > > > This was two decades ago -- who knows, I have gotten "better" as a human in that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by karma to sand down a lot of their rough spots. Humility can come in an instant, so who knows what they've evolved into by now. The acid test is what they do with their money and how they treat their minions. > > > > And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are as if funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's impoverished masses who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, gifts, and investment in gonzo business deals. And the movement is knocking on their door for more cash EVERY. DAY. Shit, even I get asked for donations by the TMO at least ten times a year. Simply trying to avoid all that rush for their gold turns the rich into fear-everyone types, and it shows when you try to approach the rich with anything but "hey, try the bean casserole." They smell your beggary from 100 feet away. So, on that level, I pity them, because they are always hiding out from the masses, and having to have only people like them to hob nob with. Vicious cycle that. > > > > Now-a-days, mostly I see TM as a scam. The technique probably can be used to good effect, but what that is and how it compares to other techniques is just not clear. I'm all for anything that lessens physiological excitation, but I could rattle of a hundred ways to obtain that. > > > > I like the idea of the Holy Tradition, but where was it ever honored? Maharishi FORBID any translation of Guru Dev's words, right? Ask L.B., right? The movement has never NEVER NEVER wanted us to have intellectual clarity -- tried to keep us all as blind true believers and avoid any discussion of the fine points or the truths about the mantras, Guru Dev's money/death, and on and on -- we all know the ways the movement didn't respect us or grant us any right to know about most of the movement's machinations. > > > > Here's one symbolic moment for me: on teacher training, Maharishi had a meeting that was sort of "thrown together quickly in a very small venue" and it turned out that people could sit right next to Maharishi, maybe only a 100 people in the room. This rich guy planks his ass down right next to Maharishi, and picks up Maharishi's hand and holds it! -- instead of listening he interrupted Maharishi several times to add his opinion to the words of Maharishi. > > > > Maharishi didn't even twitch, and none of his body guards did either -- they knew the master was working the guy up to get a big gift to the movement, ya see? Up until the time, the only person I knew who'd ever touched Maharishi was Tat Walla Baba. > > > > If I had planked my ass down before that rich guy, I would have been sent home FOR FUCKING EVER for not knowing my place. > > > > And, yes, after that instance, I gave two more decades to the movement -- which means I was not only an asshole, but a mindful toady asshole. > > > > And that's the cause of all this bitterness you see in my writings -- I did this to me. 100% on me, but if anyone here wants to defend the TMO as guilt-free because "everyone has their integrity and has to own their own karma, so we get to maraud others with fake science, lies, lies and more lies," then I'm probably going to piss all over those opinions just as you, Dear Fucked-up Richard, have once again tried to piss on my opinions. > > > > My hope for you, Richard, is that you realize some day that you think of yourself as "rich" in knowledge and intellect and clarity, and you are treating the rest of us at FFL as if we are far beneath your acumen -- that is "we are poor." In this regard, you're as messed up as the snobby Rajas. > > > > Good luck to you, Bub. > > > > Edg > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Duveyoung: > > > > I know two of the Rajas -- worked for one for two years, > > > > knew the other via pot-lucks. Both millionaires AT BIRTH > > > > -- both assholes....mean assholes....haughty, rude > > > > motherfucking assholes. > > > > > > > You're an asshole for posting this. What was it, the the > > > money? LoL! > > > > > > > Did I make myself clear? I don't know about the others. > > > > > > > > > > > > >
