--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: > > > > What I liked about this book was that I assumed the author did not have a background or belief system that was guiding his experiences - so it gave his experience a different sort of credibility for me - > > Me: I don't believe this is an option for any of us. It gives too much weight to our conscious beliefs and not enough to the cultural programming as well as our cognitive habits. (Such as instantly ascribing conscious motives to even inanimate things.) > > We soak in the archetypes, myths and stories of our culture. I've certainly made an attempt to rid myself of many beliefs, but the conditioning runs to deep.
I said just a moment ago that I am not interested in defending the mystical legitimacy of NDEs, and I'm not. I have not read much about NDEs, and I certainly have not read books or articles about brain functioning, or psychology, but I am struck, Curtis, by how many assumptions you seem to make here. I am getting that perhaps your primary point is that no matter how hard we may try, or no matter how unattached we may feel we are, basically we are unable to break free of our conditionings. And, for all I know, you may be 100% right. But in the some of the cases I've come across, the people having NDEs didn't really have strong religious convictions or ideas of the after life. And also, the trauma of the injury or accident has seemed in many cases to knock one off their bearings anyway. > And that goes double for any experience like altered brain functioning though illness, injury or drugs. Altered states are altered from our usual mix of our conscious attention habits, so we fall back on more primitive images and impressions. Just as people experience "God" though the filter of their exposure culturally to specific versions of the idea, (allowing that Hindus might experience Jesus, who they have heard about, but not Zeus if they had not.) > > And then we have archetypical images that seem to go between cultures and about which we understand very little, but have been pretty well described by Anthony Campbell as well as imaginatively (some of it unwarranted IMO) enhanced by Carl Jung. > > Mother and child love and intimacy is so deep in us. Father's seemingly invincible protective power runs across cultures. And not surprisingly, under the conditions of altered states, they pop up with a full narratives embedded in the full blown experience. > > So I am thinking that none of us are innocents and belief-free. I read about a study that showed that atheists are no less vulnerable to ascribing agency to coincidence events than religious believers. That really made me laugh, but it is so true. We may think it through differently after the fact, but in the moment the connection emerges unbidden and uninfluenced by our more conscious beliefs. Conception always guides even our experience of a chair as a chair. How much more of an influence there must be under the conditions of altered states. > > > > > > > > > > Ann - I am glad you are reading the book.  Now you and I and Curtis and MJ and any other readers can discuss it.  Ha.  When I told Curtis I would put my thoughts out there - I had to go back and re-read the book!   > > > > The book showed up as a gift to me from a friend - so I read it.  I read it at face value.  I have no background in NDE experiences and haven't read much on them - interesting phenomenon though. > > > > I don't want to say too much yet as you are reading it, but, as a first impression, it is, in my view, a story of one man's journey from one place to another and I found it interesting in several respects (don't you love how I just said absolutely nothing?).  It is not a book of great spiritual or philosophical import; he scratches the surface of a lot of topics, but he makes some bold statements.  His personality, his beginning process of recovery, his struggle to understand and process his NDE and experience - all this comes through.  > > > > What I liked about this book was that I assumed the author did not have a background or belief system that was guiding his experiences - so it gave his experience a different sort of credibility for me - but it is clear he struggled to put the non-scientific aspects of it (the parts not related to his medical illness) on paper, struggled to find the words.  > > > > Given this assumption that I made/make - I thought his elementary and simple statements somewhat astonishing.  But, given also, the comments on this forum by Xeno and others, I am also clear that I do not necessarily understand the relationship between NDE's and consciousness - are they "real"? or are they a product of an ill brain?  I still haven't read the reviews, but I likely will for another perspective.  I do love some of the lines in this book though, as well as many of the quotes he uses towards the end of the book to begin his chapter's with.   > > > > Out of curiosity, I will also likely read Anita Moorjani's book (Dying to Be Me). She has a Hindu background, so the book may reflect her worldview as impacted by that, but I'll read it anyway.  > > > > Enjoy, it's a quick and easy read, geared, IMO, towards the masses.  > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > From: Ann awoelflebater@ > > >To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2013 6:34 AM > > >Subject: [FairfieldLife] For Emily > > > > > > > > > > > >Hey Em, I just ordered and started to read the Eben Alexander book "Proof of Heaven" you recommended. I will let you know what I think, so far so good. Am looking forward to reading this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
