Carol: > Yet, I too see your hypocrisy on this board... > So, it looks like you're thinking that Barry has been abusing some of the women on this list? Where would Barry have learned this behavior? Go figure.
> > > These kind of sexual relationships are a bit of a gray area. > > > How much interest you should show in other people's private > > > lives is a matter of debate. > > > > > > As Barry pointed out, 'Groupie with standards', the > > > phenomenon exists in all fields and 'all walks of life'. In > > > business, in sports, in the movie industry and so on. > > > > > > Many young women use these guys as fodder for their growth > > > and move on. These women were adults and they knew what > > > they were doing. They are groupies voluntarily and to > > > pretend that it's an one-sided affair is not accurate. > > > > You mistook my intent in saying what I said. Of course > > there is an element of groupie behavior in women falling > > onto their backs for people in positions of power or > > celebrity. That certainly happens. > > > > But there is ALSO behavior in which the people IN these > > positions of power or celebrity ABUSE their positions, > > and make use of them to get their rocks off with these > > gullible and stupid women. The TM organization was rife > > with this kind of "abuse of position." In Europe I saw > > dozens of guys on International Staff who specialized > > in "seducing the course participants," all while claim- > > ing to be celibate themselves. They would come on to > > some naive TMer or TM teacher and say things like "I > > know that I should be celibate, but I'm just SO attracted > > to you." Then they'd fuck them a few times and forget > > them, and run the same number on someone else the next > > month, or the next week. When called on this behavior, > > many of them would claim not to even be able to > > remember having done the same thing the week or month > > before. It was *accepted* behavior, and as we all know > > now, modeled on the mindset of their teacher Maharishi, > > who did exactly the same thing. > > > > There IS such a thing as a "power differential" in real > > life. Like the one that bosses have over their secre- > > taries when they badger them into having sex with them. > > Like the one that therapists have with their vulnerable > > patients. Like the one that teachers in schools have > > with their students. Abuse these levels of trust and > > responsibility in those organizations and you'll get > > your ass fired or lose your license or go to prison. > > > > But when it happens in "spiritual" organizations, this > > same abuse of inherent "power differentials" and abuse > > of trust is largely ignored, and thus quietly sanctioned. > > People see it and then look the other way, to avoid > > dealing with the cognitive dissonance of people they > > assumed to be trustworthy proving themselves less than > > trustworthy. They pretend it never happened, because > > hypocrisy is easier to live with than the knowledge > > that their assumptions about these people in power are > > and have always been false. > > > > And worse, if someone dares to cry, "The Emperor has > > no clothes, and in fact is waving his dick at every > > woman in town" the way Edg just did, the True Believers > > gang up on him and try to make *him* the Bad Guy. > > > > I think it sucks. I lived with such hypocrisy in the > > Rama trip, and will never do so again. I saw him fuck > > his way through dozens of women, taking advantage of > > their naivete and their adoration. I saw him ruin some > > of these women's lives, get them pregnant and then > > demand that they get abortions, and then dump them as > > soon as he was "finished with them." I knew many of > > these women personally, and provided a shoulder for > > them to cry on after being made to feel like a Kleenex > > that he'd jacked off into. > > > > That's WRONG. That an ABUSE OF TRUST. That's inexcusable. > > > > Trying to excuse it by saying that these women are/were > > adults and thus "knew what they were doing" just doesn't > > cut it. The incredible sway that spiritual teachers have > > over their students is never to be forgotten. Many of > > these women considered Rama almost as a God, and he > > encouraged them to think that way. Many of the TM women > > probably had their own reasons for bedding Hagelin (to > > "get close" to someone who was "close" with Maharishi, > > and thus possibly pick up some "darshan cooties") or > > Maharishi himself (*direct* "darshan cooties"). But > > it was still the teachers or the people in power who > > took advantage of these women's naivete and their > > innocence to fuck them and then throw them away. > > > > Do NOT try to make me a party in condoning this kind > > of behavior in a spiritual setting, or in any other. > > I once got fired from a job for counseling a woman > > who had been the victim of sexual abuse by the CFO > > of the company what to do to protect herself. He was > > a serial abuser, and *everyone* in the company knew > > it and kept quiet about it. I gave her a tape recorder > > and told her to record his next demands to "Stay late > > and work" (meaning "Stay and suck my cock"), and she > > did it. The CFO got fired, the resulting lawsuit cost > > the company hundreds of thousands of dollars, and I > > got fired for having suggested it. I considered my > > actions a success. > > > > Power -- real or only perceived -- comes with > > RESPONSIBILITY. You just don't abuse that responsi- > > bility, and abuse those you're responsible TO. Don't > > you DARE try to make excuses for Hagelin or Bevan > > or any of the others taking advantage of their > > perceived positions of power to fuck women who > > wouldn't have given them a second look if they > > didn't hold those positions of power. Naive or > > not, they didn't deserve to be treated the way > > they were treated.
