Share Long: > Judy why do you think it's not useful to try > to make any connections or draw parallels > between the "hard problem" approach to > consciousness and any Eastern system? > Share: If you find Judy's discussion lacking, Ken Wilber has provided a synthesis of virtually all psychological theories and spiritual perspectives in this short introduction to his spectrum of consciousness.
'No Boundary: Eastern and Western Approaches to Personal Growth' by Ken Wilber Shamhala, 1979 > > --- In [email protected], "sparaig" <LEnglish5@> wrote: > > > > For someone like Guilio Tononi and his Integrated Information > > Theory, ALL possible states that a conscious entity can be in > > are qualia, contentless or not. > > OK. The term is used in different ways, but this one is > pretty nonstandard. In any case, according to David > Chalmers, IIT is an ingenious theory but doesn't get at > the "hard problem" of consciousness. As I understand why > Chalmers identifies qualia as the "symptom" of the "hard > problem," Tononi is going in quite a different direction. > > I just don't think--at this stage of the game, at any > rate--that it's at all useful to try to make connections > or draw parallels between the "hard problem" approach to > consciousness and any Eastern system. > > > > > > > So you first have to decide what a qualia is at some deeper physiological > > level before you can answer the question. > > > > Currently, qualia are thought to be associated with activity of the > > feedback loops between the cortex and the thalamus. The current theory of > > how PC works is that TM helps set up/enhance a filtering system in the > > thalamus that allows the brain to maintain alertness while reducing the > > feedback loops to a minimum, thereby reducing qualia towards zero. > > > > There's no direct evidence of this that I am aware of, because it would > > require using brain imaging hardware that costs more than the entire worth > > of MUM to purchase and maintain, on people with regular PC episodes (up to > > $6 million for the equipment, and there's a reason why they charge $1000+ > > per test -it's expensive to run, also). > > > > And thus, the difficulty: Tononi's model can't conceive of qualia being > > non-existent, and to acknowledge that, he'd have to change definitions or > > the definition of qualia needs to be changed, or something. > > > > Other non-TM models of brain functioning and qualia have similar issues: PC > > just doesn't enter their world-view when devising their models. > > > > > > So, until definitions firm up, its hard to ask, letalone answer, the > > question. > > > > L > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <authfriend@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "sparaig" <LEnglish5@> wrote: > > [...] > > > > Does someone in PC experience qualia? > > > > > > > > It's a tricky question to ask, letalone answer. > > > > > > Not if you're talking about PC-by-itself during > > > meditation, no thoughts, no mantra. Why tricky? >
