I have a friend, let's call him George, who lives here in South Carolina - he's been doni' TM a looooong time and is a True Believer - he had Pat Heyward there in Fairfield do some jyotish and one of the things Pat once told him was that he had the "yagya" for getting a chariot or elephant or something like that which George even as a true believer thought was strange, yet in that exact period of a month that the prediction had been for George's daddy (a retired doctor) gave him one of his old cars and it was nicer than any car George had ever owned him being a public school teacher. From that point on you better believe George was sold out on jyotish and Pat Heyward too.
________________________________ From: salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2014 2:23 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why astrology is rubbish. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <noozguru@...> wrote : Oh scientist Salyavin Raj, you still didn't answer this question: Without looking them up, do the names Simon, Bretagnon and Chapront mean anything to you? Are they a folk singing trio? They'd be better off singing folk songs if they think the position of Jupiter has anything to do with my personality. Otherwise I'll just keep you seated in the peanut gallery. :-D I'm happier up there if the people on the stage are charlatans. I used to know how to draw up horoscopes, I did it the old way with an ephemeris and set of logarithmic tables. The maths is way complicated - you're much better off doing it with a computer programme - but it doesn't have to be that hard. The trouble with astrology is that all the positions of planets in their "houses" assume that the Earth is the centre of the galaxy with everything else revolving around it. This is one of the things that put me off. The other one is that if you do a couple of charts and forget to put the subjects names at the top there isn't any way of working out whose it is. LOL. On 08/04/2014 01:34 PM, salyavin808 wrote: > > > > > >---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <noozguru@...> wrote : > > >There are different systems of Jyotish. Some are regional to India. K N Rao explained that many families who practice astrology have "secret techniques" and he traveled throughout India to learn some of these. Also many village astrologers use simple techniques and yet have good predictions. > > >Anecdotes are not data. You can't expect me to accept people's word on anything especially something as esoteric as planetary influences. > > >If someone told me the world is made up of random particles that act like waves when they aren't being measured but offered no hard proof we'd all laugh yet quantum physics one of the cornerstones of human achievement. It's undeniable but all I get from astrologers is that some types are better than others and predictions aren't to be trusted but I can't see what the point of it might be if it doesn't give you any sort of reliable clues. > > >It ought to be nailed down by now, I think the reason it persists is the same reason religion does, it's a meme that offers comfort. Astrology is a way of linking us to some grand picture and gives life a meaning it didn;'t have before, it must be reassuring but I think we've gone one better in finding out that the atoms we are made of were created inside stars. > > >Generally if you can read a person's past accurately then you can predict on the basis of that those predictions will come true. > > >Hell, I can do that. People are such creatures of habit you don't need Jupiter! It's unexpected things we like a bit of warning about and how is astrology about that? Totally random of course. Except the TM variety that tells you something bad is going to happen and sells you a yagya to prevent it. There should be laws against it. > > >However they should sound more like a weather report as it is an abstract field and not exact. > > >Random patterns will be inexact... > >Things that are generally false don't tend to get passed down throughout history. > > >Oh I don't know, Christianity seems to be doing OK, amongst other bizarre ideas. The comfort of religious beliefs outweighs the suspicion they may be a load of crap, there are stronger human forces than logic. Astrology will keep going because it offers a lot and people just like it. It has never proved itself scientifically and that is the acid test for it because we humans are great at kidding ourselves, a good experiment can lay bare the truth of that. The only reason we know the earth goes round the sun is because someone tested it, things can hang around if they sound good and will easily resist contrary evidence if the belief is preferable to the ugly truth. > > >So I appreciate the arguments but I remain unconvinced. The proof will be when I win the lottery tomorrow > > >Astrology is NOT one of those things, however. It tends to ring true when properly practiced and science is at a loss to understand why though there is little funding for research into that. I go with the theory that the planets were really used as time markers not for their influence. Only the Sun and Moon have much influence on our lives. And since they couldn't see Neptune and Uranus they couldn't have used them as broader time markers. > >There was some research a few years ago about the time of day a child is born as well as the time of year. Here I believe that children are like blank slates and out of the womb begin taking in the world which influences their personality as they grow. Their surroundings will also influence their destiny and what obstacles they will find in life. The time of day a child was born would be noted in ancient time by the constellation as a time marker. > >I couple year's back I read an interesting blog article from an astrologer who found that beginner astrologers sometimes made better predictions than experienced ones. Beginners may rely more on intuition than the rules that seasoned astrologer use. Again an abstract art and sometimes a basic glance may be more correct than taking "all things into consideration." Otherwise you can get into rules that "this cancels that" when maybe it never did work that way. > >On 08/04/2014 12:10 PM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: > > >>Feste, I am not asking you to be too personal, but I am curious as to what kinds of things you gained from your readings. The ones I had done, particularly the last one by Brent BeVar certainly explained a lot of things IF I was willing to buy into the entire matrix of belief that said for example that it would have been impossible for me to have any money for a 16 year period due to my moon being in the house of the guru which is also supposedly the house of loss and expenditure. So great for spiritual endeavors, but bad for money. This coincided with the period that I was at MIU and the period just after, when I got into channeling. >> >> >>So how can you or did you use the chart to understand self better? >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> From: feste37 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> >>To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com >>Sent: Monday, August 4, 2014 1:50 PM >>Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why astrology is rubbish. >> >> >> >> >>The last thing I need to do is get more scientific! I was speaking of my own experience, which is much more reliable. It is that that convinced me of the validity of astrology. As I mentioned, I am not much interested in astrology as a predictor of the future. To me, it is a tool for self-understanding. You seem to think that anyone who accepts astrology is a gullible fool, but that is not so. You remind me a little of the intellectual who likes to tell everyone that God does not exist, and they are fools to believe in him. But those who have had the experience of God will just smile at the limitations of the rational intellect. And the intellectual will never understand the puny limits of his own small brain. >> >> >> >> >> >>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : >> >> >> >> >> >> >>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : >> >> >>Youmust have seen some very bad astrologers to have got this cynical about it. >> >> >>Actually it's the poor quality of astrologers that made me SKEPTICAL about it. If I was cynical I wouldn't have bothered in the first place but everyone loved the guy I saw and he was Marshy's favourite, sent by head office. He was crap and no more convincing about anything than a seaside conjuror doing cold-reading on gullible old ladies. >> >> >>It was the fact I had an open mind that likes asking questions that got me realising he was bullshitting everyone. I have absolutely no doubt you would have thought he was great, he had a thing painted on his head and needed an interpreter! Talk about the real deal Indian faker...made for credulous westerners. >> >> >> >> >>I have had five professional astrological readings over the last 34 years. They were all excellent. Nothing vague about any of them. Precise, detailed, accurate (except for some of the predictions for the future, although some were spot-on). >> >> >>You need to get scientific about this. Of course some predictions will be spot on and some not, it's a random process! You've just looked at the good ones and thought there must be something to it while downplaying the enormous significance of the wrong ones. >> >> >>As I point out in my post, if a prediction doesn't come true then all future predictions will be increasingly inaccurate or be increasingly vague to have to take into account all possible contradictions in the earlier reading being both wrong and right. >> >> >>And how can the planets be wrong anyway! One day I'll sit down and write down how the maths doesn't work and the absurdity of the birth chart and it's place in personal and world history. Might make a good book.... >> >> >> >> >> Veryenlightening. These readings helped me enormously in understanding myself. I suspect you will never get anything from astrology because a cynic has a closed mind and is incapable of learning. >> >> >>Someone with a bad teacher is limited in what he can learn. The limit here is whether I accept on faith what I'm told or not. I try not to believe things without having a think first, in fact it was me who spotted that jyotishdoesn't use all the planets in the solar system because the more distant ones weren't known to the ancients. What sort of science is that if it can't adapt to new knowledge? The trouble is that if it did adapt it would have to admit that it was wrong in the first place. That's a major difference between science and religion, one is fallible and can therefore change and improve, The other is set in scripture handed down from on high and we aren't worthy of criticising it. >> >> >>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : >> >> >> >> >> >> >>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : >> >> >> >> >> >>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : >> >> >>Whydon't you just try using the natal chart for self-understanding? >> >> >>Becausethere's nothing a bunch of lifeless and distant planets can tell me about me that I don't already know. >> >>Haveyou ever tried it? >> >> >>Well obviously, what did you think this post was about? Maybe you're a stranger to yourself, maybe you get some personal confirmation in being told you are a nice guy with emotional depth or other such vaguenesses. How many times has the experiment of giving a bunch of people the same reading and them all agreeing it's a close match got to be done before people realise that they are seeing what they want to in horoscopes? >> >> >>Thereis nothing so bold as ignorance. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : >> >> >>Thisweek saw the end of the period that a jyotishee told me that I would win a lot of money. It didn't happen. That isn't the surprising bit to me - it's a chance game really, look at the odds of winning the premium bonds or the lottery and divide it between the number of years you are likely to live and the likelihood becomes obvious. But it would have been an interesting demonstration of super powers. >> >> >>No,the reason I think astrology must be rubbish is that within the promise of me winning there has to be a change in how all future horoscopes are drawn up from my birth chart. For instance, if I suddenly acquired millions of pounds would I live in the same house or buy a yatch and moor it in some secluded harbour in Italy? I think we all know the answer to that, so any future predictions must take into account the sort of lifestyle problems or advances I would have to endure with my many houses and supermodel girlfriends etc. >> >> >>Here'sthe problem, the future stretches in front of us like a cone of possibilities, today there are several things I could do and tomorrow there are many more options precisely because of the options from today multiply with increased options of thier own tomorrow. And so on exponentially. The trouble for astrology is that winning a lot of money or not will have a large impact on the direction of my future cone of possibilities. It collapses a waveform for my future life that hasn't happened. So if my horoscope continues to make predictions on its apparent assumption that I'm now a multi-millionairethere are going to be discrepancies between prediction and events. For instance, I'm going to buy a new pair of shoes this week, if there was a parallel universe with me as a rich man I would have some made for me, probably at >> >>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)
