Proper testing, my donkey. Talk about "cultivate an ant-science stance," What sophistry. And as if people's experience is not knowledge? Like experience with darshan, for instance? People quite evidently get psycho-physiologic relief in well-being that is also physical, spiritually. Well-being. Is this not one person's science when it happens? Proper testing? You seem generally allergic, too stuck up in the head, to things spiritual now to appreciate them. -Buck ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote :
This is the height of TM blasphemy! How many times has L English reminded us of the many scientific validations of TM?!?!?!?!? From: salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Alternative Therapy ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <sharelong60@...> wrote : Salyavin, speaking only for myself, one reason I go for alternative therapies is to avoid the horrible side effects of allopathic medicines. Just make sure that if something serious takes hold you get yourself down to the local hospital, I've seen the results of not doing that too many times.... ....but only since I've been involved with the TMO. Funny that, but then they do cultivate an ant-science stance, they have to really, it's either that or explain why ayurveda never onto the BMA list of approve treatments. If western medicine is fundamentally bad we don't have to compete. On Friday, August 22, 2014 10:24 AM, salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <sharelong60@...> wrote : Salyavin, one could just as easily say that Science is another way we have of kidding ourselves! Not really, the whole point of science is that we have a system of testing that tells us whether we are kidding ourselves, hence the double blind trials in medicine. It's the gold standard for beating kiddology. Same with all branches of science, it allows you to say with some certainty that what you have is knowledge rather than belief and knowing that the certainty isn't complete allows for further refinement all the time. 5000 years of thinking that the Earth is flat doesn't mean that it is or ever was. As for a system like Chinese medicine, it is based on centuries of observation, about 5,000 years of observation. It may not be Modern Science, but it certainly carries some validity. Certainly way more than just one or two personal anecdotes! How was the observation carried out though? If it was just people with self-reported problems getting a bit of relief then we can be sure it's all make believe with a random element of chance throwing up a treatment for something. Until a proper test is carried out you are just hoping for the best. As far as I can google, Chinese herbal medicine has failed every test other than that expected by chance alone. I've looked in the window of my local Chinese medical centre and all the treatments offered are just pampering for the worried well, they don't seem to tackle anything serious. It's for anxious westerners with nothing wrong with them to get a bit more out of life if they can. But there's no harm in it (I hope) but make sure you see a proper doctor if there is something serious wrong with you.That's my advice anyway... What interests me is why people go for things like this, maybe modern medicine is too impersonal for a lot of people. Not a good enough bedside manner from the doctor, who knows? The lure of ancient stuff sure is strong, I imagine it ties in with the belief that life was better in the olden days and we can learn from them despite the massive infant mortality rate and low life expectancy. On Friday, August 22, 2014 6:39 AM, salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <sharelong60@...> wrote : Salyavin, first of all, I think the FDA who approves drugs in the US, is corrupt and thus I don't trust what they say about the safety of any drug. And this is based on? Secondly, wrt alternative modalities, my "sacred cow" happens to be Chinese medicine rather than ayurveda. It's simply worked better for me. If it survives adequate testing then it's as good as any other. I don't think it will though, powdered Tiger penis might sound like a potent formula but it's a placebo like most other folk medicines. Not that there aren't potential gems there it's just that until the shit is sifted out by scientific method you are relying on personal anecdote and all the afforementioned ways of kidding ourselves that we have. On Friday, August 22, 2014 3:15 AM, salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <sharelong60@...> wrote : Actually I have seen death listed as a possible side effect of some prescriptions. It would win Irony of the Year if it wasn't so horrifying. I know people who have died because they stuck to ayurvedic snake oil when they had cancer. Amrit Kalash has somehow gained a reputation as being good for treating tumours because it apparently kills them in a petri dish - I'm not sure of the TMO still uses that as a selling point but vaidyas used to recommend doubling or tripling the dose if you had cancer (think your pills are expensive?). Trouble is, things dying in a lab don't behave in the same way in the human body. Irresponsible? Of course, MA4 is an untested "drug" with no known effects, side or otherwise. In fact, it's 99% ghee and sugar with a few berries mixed in. I know people who died, seriously, they could have had chemo and surgery and the chances are they'd still be here. The new age can keep its "modalities" until they are tested and proven to have some therapeutic worth. Don't die of ignorance. On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:18 PM, salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <sharelong60@...> wrote : Oh, I thought by "proper doctor" you meant one who would prescribe pills that cost $100 each and list the following possible side effects: vomiting, headaches, rashes, death, chills, fever, leg cramps... When have you had those, and did they treat the condition being prescribed for? Did the side effects all manifest? They usually don't, they list everything reported by the test groups to cover themselves. Homeopath's have no need to list side effects you know, water is generally rather safe due to it being inert if that makes you happier.... On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:02 PM, salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <sharelong60@...> wrote : dear Salyavin even though it frightens me to ask: exactly how do you define "proper doctor?" One that doesn't prescribe you untested snake oil or placebo's obviously. Someone with an actual medical training perhaps, who can spot health problems and actually do something about them rather than wave a hand over you while chanting in sanskrit. Didn't we have this conversation last week? On Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:14 PM, salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <noozguru@...> wrote : On 08/21/2014 10:09 AM, salyavin808 wrote: Doesn't your Royal Family use homeopathy? Oh well, it must be true then. I suppose wearing a crown makes you immune from errors of reasoning. Well, I was kidding you, of course. Even Turq once disagreed with Curtis anti-homeopathic stance because he had actually found a homeopathic substance useful. There's something to the science even if it twiddles the mind of a high school trained scientist. That's the point, there is nothing to the science. That's why we do science, to work out what's real from what isn't, there's nothing like blind testing to give the lie to dodgy claims. Like we did with astrology and all sorts of other nonsense. Check the periodic table posted by MJ earlier for details. :-D Problem is the naysayers are "often reviewing a movie without having seen it." These ideas sound wacky to them until the "white coats" adopt it for their mainstream medicine (as has happened with some of ayurveda). = You actually can get homeopathy on the National Health in the UK but there is a campaign to stop it as using tax payers money to fund something you can demonstrate is ineffective when there are so many people with health problems that simply drinking water given to you by someone friendly won't cure, the money should go to effective and tested treatments. = I would say that until something is tested it shouldn't be described as medicine (this happens here anyway) if ayurvedic treatments survive double blind tests then yes, they should be included in public health programmes. But as it is it's not a system of knowledge but a set of folk beliefs, some of which are known to be seriously dangerous. Testing is expensive though so I fall back on my trusty old maxim: try ayurveda until there is something wrong with you, then go see a proper doctor. = On Thursday, August 21, 2014 9:59 AM, "Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Michael, are you being paid by Big Pharma?! On Thursday, August 21, 2014 9:47 AM, "Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: What everyone on FFL needs on their wall http://crispian-jago.blogspot.com/2010/10/handy-alternative-therapy-flowchart.html http://crispian-jago.blogspot.com/2010/10/handy-alternative-therapy-flowchart.html The Reason Stick: A Handy Alternative Therapy Flowchart Believe it or not, I don't really have a particular interest in alternative therapies, I just can't help picking at the scabs of alt-med credulity. View on crispian-jago.blogspot... Preview by Yahoo
