---In [email protected], <sharelong60@...> wrote :
Salyavin, one could just as easily say that Science is another way we
have of kidding ourselves!
>
On 8/22/2014 10:23 AM, salyavin808 wrote:
>
Not really, the whole point of science is that we have a system of
testing that tells us whether we are kidding ourselves, hence the
double blind trials in medicine. It's the gold standard for beating
kiddology.
>
So, you don't want to talk about the Rama levitation event. Where I come
from, silence usually indicates agreement. Maybe you are scared of
Barry. Where is Barry /the science writer/ when we need him? Probably on
vacation somewhere. Go figure.
>
Same with all branches of science, it allows you to say with some
certainty that what you have is knowledge rather than belief and
knowing that the certainty isn't complete allows for further
refinement all the time. 5000 years of thinking that the Earth is flat
doesn't mean that it is or ever was.
As for a system like Chinese medicine, it is based on centuries of
observation, about 5,000 years of observation. It may not be Modern
Science, but it certainly carries some validity. Certainly way more
than just one or two personal anecdotes!
How was the observation carried out though? If it was just people with
self-reported problems getting a bit of relief then we can be sure
it's all make believe with a random element of chance throwing up a
treatment for something. Until a proper test is carried out you are
just hoping for the best. As far as I can google, Chinese herbal
medicine has failed every test other than that expected by chance alone.
I've looked in the window of my local Chinese medical centre and all
the treatments offered are just pampering for the worried well, they
don't seem to tackle anything serious. It's for anxious westerners
with nothing wrong with them to get a bit more out of life if they can.
But there's no harm in it (I hope) but make sure you see a proper
doctor if there is something serious wrong with you.That's my advice
anyway...
What interests me is why people go for things like this, maybe modern
medicine is too impersonal for a lot of people. Not a good enough
bedside manner from the doctor, who knows? The lure of ancient stuff
sure is strong, I imagine it ties in with the belief that life was
better in the olden days and we can learn from them despite the
massive infant mortality rate and low life expectancy.
On Friday, August 22, 2014 6:39 AM, salyavin808
<[email protected]> wrote:
---In [email protected], <sharelong60@...> wrote :
Salyavin, first of all, I think the FDA who approves drugs in the US,
is corrupt and thus I don't trust what they say about the safety of
any drug.
And this is based on?
Secondly, wrt alternative modalities, my "sacred cow" happens to be
Chinese medicine rather than ayurveda. It's simply worked better for me.
If it survives adequate testing then it's as good as any other. I
don't think it will though, powdered Tiger penis might sound like a
potent formula but it's a placebo like most other folk medicines. Not
that there aren't potential gems there it's just that until the shit
is sifted out by scientific method you are relying on personal
anecdote and all the afforementioned ways of kidding ourselves that we
have.
On Friday, August 22, 2014 3:15 AM, salyavin808
<[email protected]> wrote:
---In [email protected], <sharelong60@...> wrote :
Actually I have seen death listed as a possible side effect of some
prescriptions. It would win Irony of the Year if it wasn't so horrifying.
I know people who have died because they stuck to ayurvedic snake oil
when they had cancer. Amrit Kalash has somehow gained a reputation as
being good for treating tumours because it apparently kills them in a
petri dish - I'm not sure of the TMO still uses that as a selling
point but vaidyas used to recommend doubling or tripling the dose if
you had cancer (think your pills are expensive?). Trouble is, things
dying in a lab don't behave in the same way in the human body.
Irresponsible? Of course, MA4 is an untested "drug" with no known
effects, side or otherwise. In fact, it's 99% ghee and sugar with a
few berries mixed in. I know people who died, seriously, they could
have had chemo and surgery and the chances are they'd still be here.
The new age can keep its "modalities" until they are tested and proven
to have some therapeutic worth. Don't die of ignorance.
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:18 PM, salyavin808
<[email protected]> wrote:
---In [email protected], <sharelong60@...> wrote :
Oh, I thought by "proper doctor" you meant one who would prescribe
pills that cost $100 each and list the following possible side
effects: vomiting, headaches, rashes, death, chills, fever, leg cramps...
When have you had those, and did they treat the condition being
prescribed for?
Did the side effects all manifest? They usually don't, they list
everything reported by the test groups to cover themselves.
Homeopath's have no need to list side effects you know, water is
generally rather safe due to it being inert if that makes you happier....
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:02 PM, salyavin808
<[email protected]> wrote:
---In [email protected], <sharelong60@...> wrote :
dear Salyavin even though it frightens me to ask: exactly how do you
define "proper doctor?"
One that doesn't prescribe you untested snake oil or placebo's
obviously. Someone with an actual medical training perhaps, who can
spot health problems and actually do something about them rather than
wave a hand over you while chanting in sanskrit.
Didn't we have this conversation last week?
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:14 PM, salyavin808
<[email protected]> wrote:
---In [email protected], <noozguru@...> wrote :
On 08/21/2014 10:09 AM, salyavin808 wrote:
Doesn't your Royal Family use homeopathy?
Oh well, it must be true then. I suppose
wearing a crown makes you immune from
errors of reasoning.
Well, I was kidding you, of course.
Even Turq once disagreed with Curtis
anti-homeopathic stance because he had
actually found a homeopathic substance
useful. There's something to the science
even if it twiddles the mind of a high
school trained scientist.
That's the point, there is nothing to the
science. That's why we do science, to
work out what's real from what isn't,
there's nothing like blind testing to
give the lie to dodgy claims. Like we did
with astrology and all sorts of other
nonsense. Check the periodic table posted
by MJ earlier for details.
:-D
Problem is the naysayers are "often reviewing
a movie without having seen it." These ideas
sound wacky to them until the "white coats"
adopt it for their mainstream medicine (as has
happened with some of ayurveda).
=
You actually can get homeopathy on the
National Health in the UK but there is a
campaign to stop it as using tax payers money
to fund something you can demonstrate is
ineffective when there are so many people with
health problems that simply drinking water
given to you by someone friendly won't cure,
the money should go to effective and tested
treatments.
=
I would say that until something is tested it
shouldn't be described as medicine (this
happens here anyway) if ayurvedic treatments
survive double blind tests then yes, they
should be included in public health
programmes. But as it is it's not a system of
knowledge but a set of folk beliefs, some of
which are known to be seriously dangerous.
Testing is expensive though so I fall back on
my trusty old maxim: try ayurveda until there
is something wrong with you, then go see a
proper doctor.
=
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 9:59 AM,
"Share Long sharelong60@...
[FairfieldLife]"
<[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]>
wrote:
Michael, are you being paid by Big Pharma?!
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 9:47 AM,
"Michael Jackson mjackson74@...
[FairfieldLife]"
<[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]>
wrote:
What everyone on FFL needs on their wall
http://crispian-jago.blogspot.com/2010/10/handy-alternative-therapy-flowchart.html
The Reason Stick: A Handy Alternative
Therapy Flowchart
<http://crispian-jago.blogspot.com/2010/10/handy-alternative-therapy-flowchart.html>
Believe it or not, I don't really have a
particular interest in alternative
therapies, I just can't help picking at
the scabs of alt-med credulity.
View on crispian-jago.blogspot...
<http://crispian-jago.blogspot.com/2010/10/handy-alternative-therapy-flowchart.html>
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