--- In [email protected], Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > < snipping what came before > > > I think it can be understood using the concept of > dharma. Within the context of waking state there is a > foundational dharma of individual responsibility > because there is so clearly a phenomenological "I" > that is "me". One engages in spiritual practices to > "integrate being" etc., etc.. Then "something happens" > and the Self wakes-up to what it has already been. Now > the dharma has shifted because there is no "I" present > and the perspectiveless perspective is quite different > from the perspective of "I" in waking state. > Everything just happens and it is self-evident that it > has always occured this way.
Since we're talking about experiences that we have had but (to be honest) none of us fully understand, I'll take a moment to quibble with the traditional concept of "no I" after reali- zation. I've always had a little trouble with this concept, because the concept of the ego/I somehow "going away" after realization doesn't quite map to my own experiences. The concept of the ego/I "going away" or being somehow "replaced" by Self/I implies that it's a subtractive process. For me, realization has always been more of an additive process. Nothing of life before realization ever went away; only new realizations were added. So while I appreciate your description, Peter, I would phrase it more in terms of which "I" seems to be "predominant." The ego/I is still present, which is a good thing -- it would be somewhat difficult to deal with things like taxes and traffic jams and the occasional mugger if it had completely "gone away." But it's not the *predominant* "I." That is Self, which is always present and, as you say, has *always* been present, although not always appreciated. Anybody else identify with this? I ask because some on this forum have characterized those of us who have had such experiences and talk about them openly here as somehow presenting ourselves as authorities on or representatives of enlighten- ment. I don't think of myself that way. I don't even use the word 'enlightenment' any more; it's a bad word, colored by too many meanings in too many contexts. I don't know what the fuck I am, and don't worry about it overmuch. But it is fun sometimes to hear other people's views on similar experiences. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
