--- In [email protected], doctor_gabby_savy
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], doctor_gabby_savy
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > > See Vaj's post about frames of reference. Somehow
> > > you've managed to confuse at least two different ones.
>
> I believe Vaj is referring to observational points of reference.
> Indeed one has a different view from earth, the sun or the pole
star.
>
> I am using a constant observational frame of reference with respect
to
> VE and the postition of the sun.
>
> Another frame of reference is "calculational". From earth you could
> report the distance to the sun in miles or kilometers. The number is
> different, the distance is the same.
>
> I believe you are using two different calculational reference
> points, tropical and sideral, in the same single observation of the
> sun at VE.
Nope. Remember, what you're suggesting is that
the vernal equinox will eventually occur in
*September*.
> This will cause confusion. To reconcile this confusion, you appear
to
> believe the error is my using of two observational reference
points.
> I am not. I beleive the confusion is from your use of two
> calculational RPs for the same observational RP.
>
>
> >
> > Perhaps.
> >
> > > As I suggested earlier, the day-to-day position
> > > the sun in the Zodiac is an entirely different frame
> > > of reference from the position of the sun from year
> > > to year at the time of the vernal equinox.
> >
> > And your reasoning for why that is so is not clear.
> >
> > > In the latter frame of reference, this year the sun
> > > will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox
> > > (it'll enter Aquarius in 2013).
> >
> > > However, in the
> > > former frame of reference, this year the sun will be
> > > in the first degree of Aries at the vernal equinox.
> >
> > I think you are confusing sideral and tropical frames of
reference.
> > In sideral frame (the one used in jyotish) this year the sun will
be
> > in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox and (again) this year
the
> > sun will be Pisces at the vernal equinox.
>
> Slight Correction. Sideral view takes precession into account.
> Jyotish uses an Ayanamsa -- a factor to convert tropical to sideral.
> (the celestial mechanics are calculated in tropical,then converted)
>
> Thus, the point of sideral is that, among other things, I beleive VE
> will always be when the sun is at the cusp of Aries and Pisces. It
> will always occur in relation to the actual stars at the cusp.
> This assumes the sun actually retreats a bit at VE, tropically --
due
> to precession. Which could be shown graphically pretty clearly, but
> harder in words. That assumption may be the point of difference
> between us.
>
> To verify, I just ran a jyotish chart for the 2006 VE which has
about
> a 24 degree ayanasma "adjustment". Sun is a few degrees into
Aries
> -- which may be a longitude thing, and perhaps my ayanasma is off a
> bit. Just as it should be for a constant aries cusp in sideral view
> over long spans of time.
>
> On the other hand, tropical will an unadjusted date for VE. Since
> precession causes (the real) VE to occur slightly earlier over time,
> the date of VE must slowly change over time. In 200 year span its
not
> noticable. In 2100 years or so, it will shift a month. In 13000
years
> it will shift 6 months.
>
> Due to a regularly updated ayansama every century or so, in sideral
> view VE will always be at cusp of Aries and Pisces. 1n 13000 years
it
> will have an ayanamsa of 180 degrees. Thus converting from sideral
to
> tropical, VE in tropical will be on cusp of Virgo. And in earth
> weather, tropical view, september is fall weather.
>
>
> > > The *words* are the same ("The sun is in X
> > > constellation at the vernal equinox"), but because
> > > the frames of reference are entirely different, what
> > > "X" is in each case is also entirely different.
> >
> > I fail to see the distinction. I run a jyotish program, with a
visual
> > transit feature a lot. In current time freame, when the sun is in
> > pisces at the VE it is march. When the sun is in Virgo it is
> > september. The sun is not in two different constallations at the
same
> > time. It is in two only superficially. Though in the same spot,
> > tropical view puts it in Aries, and sideral view puts it in
Pisces. I
> > think thats where you are confusing your frames.
> >
>
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