--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" > <jpgillam@> wrote: > > --- jim_flanegin wrote: > > > --- Rick Archer wrote: > > > > > > > > Seems to me that enlightenment is a matter of seeing > > > > things clearly. It doesn't mean you're Superman. > > > > > > > That's as good and elegant a definition as I've heard-- seeing > > > things clearly. Plain and simple.
This is very much in line with the Buddhist approach to enlightenment. One "definition" I've heard from Buddhist teachers of the state is, "Enlightenment is perception without mental modification." *Any* mental modification. I think that one of the things that "rings false" in some people's reported experiences of enlightenment is that they attempt to make the experiences "fit into" the descriptions of such experiences they have been fed by their tradition. They *color* the stories of their own personal experiences in such a way that they seem to be more in line with what other members of the organization were told about what such experiences "should" be like. Or -- another common phenomenon -- they describe their experiences such that it appears they fall into one of the pat descriptions of *stages* of enlightenment -- CC, GC, UC, BC, or whatever the various "flavors" of experiences are labeled by their tradition. That's one reason I find reports such as Jim's valuable. He rarely, if ever, tries to do this. He just talks about what he experiences, without trying to "color" it or define it in any way *as* anything; they're just his stories of "what is," for him. > > To bring up Suzanne Segal again, that's an admonition she > > hammered toward the end of her book -- "seeing things > > as they really are." But she never elaborated on it. > > > > Sometimes I think the work of Byron Katie is geared toward > > seeing things as they really are, unencumbered by > > preconceptions or fears. Maybe that's one explanation. Preconceptions are always just that -- pre-conceptions. They're what one expects the baby to look like and be like before any actual screwing has taken place. :-) When the baby actually *is* conceived and pops out, it doesn't necessarily look like or act like what was expected. And that's Ok. But some "parents" have a tendency to try to *make* it into what they expected. The kid's playing in the sandbox, clearly blissed out drawing in the sand, enjoying being an artist, and the "parents" are already planning its career as a lawyer, because they were told that all enlightenment babies are lawyers. :-) :-) :-) Back in Fiuggi, I knew about half a dozen folks who were having flashes of awakening. At first they were quite happy describing them *as they were*, as 24/7 transcendence, along with whatever else was going on in the "foreground" of life. Then Maharishi gave a lecture in which he suggested that one of the qualities of CC was "X." Within days, all of these people were talking about "X." No one had ever mentioned "X" before, or seemingly even thought about "X" before, but the moment it was an *expected* component of CC, they added it to their stories of their own personal experiences. In other words, in my opinion, not being stabilized in their experience, they were attempting to *color* it and *make them into* what such experiences were "supposed" to be like. What was obvious from my point of view was that the joy had gone out of their stories. Before this event, when these people had been talking about "what was" for them, you could *feel* the energy behind their words, the sense of newness and excitement that they were feeling. The moment they switched to telling stories about what they were "supposed" to be experiencing, all of that joy went out of the words. It was just people telling stories that had been told to them. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/