--- In [email protected], "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: > > > > > > On Apr 9, 2006, at 4:59 AM, t3rinity wrote: > > > > > From what I know, and what I have seen > > > in the Satsang movement, this is exactly what is being done > there: The > > > truth of non-duality is being pointed out and explained in terms > of > > > his own everyday experience, it is being discussed, and quite > often > > > people are guided towards self-inquiry ('who am I'.) > > > > > > Yes this is what is happening in some cases IMO. Pointing out. > > However at the same time after some are "introduced" they go on > > rather quickly to claim Buddhahood, Unity Consciousness (brahma- > > chetana), Cosmic Consciousness (turiyatita) or in the case of TMO > > people, they go on to claim what "Maharishi said". In every case I > am > > aware of, none of these people would fit the definition of those > > states or the experience. There's a strong element of grandiosity > in > > it all. > > How do you know that such people don't fit the definition of those > states or the experience? Fred Travis has acknowledged that there IS > a tendency amongst some he interviewed for his Cosmic Consciousness > research to parrot Movement-Speak concerning Cosmic Consciousness. > However he did find consistent physiological differences between > TMers who reported 24/7 witnessing and those who didn't, even though > the EEG *during* TM was pretty much the same in both groups. In case > you're wondering,the EEG during samadhi episodes during TM practice > becomes a "carrier" for normal waking, dreaming and sleeping EEG.
I think Vaj's comments refer to a wide range of possible phenomenon -- few or perhaps any being countered by your examples. First, "he did find consistent physiological differences between TMers who reported 24/7 witnessing and those who didn't" does not establish that those reporting 24/7 eperiences actaully are. Or that they ARE cc as defined by MMY. Second, it is more strange if someone is practicing TM for 30 years and NOT to have some clear and extended periods of Consciousness being conscious of itself. The issue that Vaj is apparently pointing out, and that I have previously, is that there appears to be a quick jump from some extended periods of Consciousness being conscious of itself -- or even just momentary during discussions, to being in Brahman Consciousness -- brahma-chetana or beyond. And not much discussion of the transition from a sustained dual state to the non-dual state. And some apparent muddled expositions of non-dual states -- with dual-state charaacteristics. Its for these two reasons, and others, that raise the possibilities of sematic differences, and misinteretation of experiences as something more than they are. Its not clear that such people DO fit the definition of those states or the experience. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
