--- In [email protected], t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: > > > > > > On Apr 9, 2006, at 4:59 AM, t3rinity wrote: > > > > > From what I know, and what I have seen > > > in the Satsang movement, this is exactly what is being done there: The > > > truth of non-duality is being pointed out and explained in terms of > > > his own everyday experience, it is being discussed, and quite often > > > people are guided towards self-inquiry ('who am I'.) > > > > > > Yes this is what is happening in some cases IMO. Pointing out. > > It is ALWAYS happening. Its the core of the teaching: that anybodies > ultimate identity is Brahman, the Self whatever you like to say. > Should I give you quotes of the Ribhu Gita (highly recommended by > Ramana), or Avadhuta Gita? > > > However at the same time after some are "introduced" they go on > > rather quickly to claim Buddhahood, Unity Consciousness (brahma- > > chetana), Cosmic Consciousness (turiyatita) or in the case of TMO > > people, they go on to claim what "Maharishi said". > > I don't know about that. In the Satsangs that I observered, nobody > stands there saying: 'I am enlightened and you are not' I indeed have > never heard of this.
I don't see Vaj stating that. You maybe are reading into his post something that is not in the words. > You may here something like: 'Enlightenment is a > concept, get rid of it' or, ' you are already what you are seeking' > etc. All these claims can be perfectly substantiated by scriptures. I > am happy to cite, if you don't believe me. So, the point for me is > not, is there anybody invalidly claiming enlightenment, or even > different levels (equating them with completely different terminology > like CC or UC, something I have never heard in the Satsang scene), but > rather, does this format of interaction in modern Satsang conform to > something valid, as described in the ancient scriptures, and yes it > does. I can't comment on the satsang scene, but my observations of things such as apparent confusion and "mixing" views of dual andnon-dual states, and the apparent quick and unexplained jump from consciousness being aware of itself to Brahman Consciousness have been about posts here. > There are so many Shankaracharyas, giving discourses on Advaita, > and they make no secret that they aren't enlightened. Which ones? And if they are not "enlightened" by their definitions (classical) -- perhaps theirs is a "higher" bar than those self-proclaiming it. > > In every case I am > > aware of, none of these people would fit the definition of those > > states or the experience. There's a strong element of grandiosity in > > it all. > > To you. I haven't oserved it. To the opposite, the Satsang movement > plays down enlightenment as an 'attainment'. It rather makes it > accessable, just always referring you to the next step. (Like: who is > asking this question?) Again, not the case with posts here. > > > > > "Masters of old lashed out at those who claimed to be > > enlightened yet refused to be tested, calling them > > "earthworms living in the slime of self-validated > > satori"." > > -Philip Kapleau Roshi > > > > How many were tested by their teachers? would be my > > question--but I already know the answer. > > I was investigating the Satsang movement in the context of its > historic origin, which is good to do > while you mix it with Zen Buddhism and Tibetan > Vajrayana. Now that is weird. well, the discussion has been on "modern" neo-statangs, the FF satsang, and pirmarily, IMO, posts on FFL. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
