--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > He doesn't sell it; he feels so strongly about its > > value that he offers to pay for it *himself* so that > > others can learn it. > > > > THAT is what students are responding to, not TM. > > > > Last night I ran into an old friend from a Tibetan > > Buddhist group around Montpellier. Because I knew > > that they had been offering meditation instruction > > lately, I asked her how that was going, and what > > the level of interest was. She replied that every > > class scheduled so far had been full, with people > > on waiting lists asking to be notified of the next > > course. Several thousand people have learned to > > meditate just in the last few months. > > Please keep in mind that there have been numerous > articles about the recently published study on long- > term Buddhist meditation.
None of which have been published in France AFAIK, or are referred to by these teachers in their talks. They're teaching meditation *as* meditation, not meditation masquerading as science. > People go for what is in the public eye. See above. You're just making excuses for TM's incredibly stupid and inept marketing approach, not to mention *selling* meditation as a *product* in the first place. > TM certainly is not getting the "new > kid on the block" treatment from the press like > Buddhist meditation is, so people are more likely > to be interested in the new thing. See above. You're just making excuses. > Being free doesn't hurt either. The issue isn't really *about* being free. It's about the students getting a *feeling* from the teachers that they really believe in what they're teaching, enough to pay all the bills themselves. That hasn't been true of the TM movement (except for rare scattered teachers who teach outside the TM movement) for decades. The first impression *anyone* is going to get when they attend a TM lecture is that it's a money-making enterprise, and that the technique is taught by geeks who have a hard time *relating* to other people, and don't really care about them at all. Most people who start TM these days probably do so *despite* the TM movement and its "certified" teachers, not because of it. > > So what's their secret? The instructors teach for > > free, and in fact pay for all the expenses involved > > themselves. They consider it their dharma to do so. > > Sure, but how many of their students are going to keep > at it for 10,000 to 50,000 hours of practice over 15-40 > years? Can you give the compulsive True Believer thing a *rest*, man? When you're not in knee-jerk-gotta- defend-TM-gotta-defend-TM-gotta-defend-TM mode, even *you* admit that the number of people still practicing TM is miniscule compared to the number who once started. At least these Buddhists found enough value *in* the techniques they practice to continue practicing them. What percentage of TMers is that true for? > This being how long the advanced meditators who were > tested in the recent Buddhist study had been meditating. AFAIK NO ONE in Montpellier who learned to meditate from these people did so because of any scientific research about meditation. French college students (which is what most of the new meditators are) don't give a shit about that; that's a stupid American thing that TMers think is a worldwide phenomenon. The Montpellier students started meditating because they're interested in meditation and in learning more about who they really are, and in *having* some spiritual experiences rather than just reading about them. I suspect that most French would say that only a cretin would learn a meditation technique because of what some scientific study says about it. They're far more prag- matic than that, and more personal. They look at the *person* who is teaching and ask themselves if there is something interesting or cool about that *individual* that they'd like to learn. In the case of the teachers in Montpellier (I've met some of them), that is the case; IMO that's the secret of their success. Imagine if such a pragmatic person ran into one of the "recertified" TM teachers we've seen photos of and heard from on this forum. They'd laugh all the way back to their car and drive home. > Another interesting thing to note is that while there was an > accumulative effect DURING meditation based on how long the > meditators had been practicing, this didn't translate into a > significant difference in EEG outside meditation between short and > long-term meditators, unlike the case with long-term TM meditators. > > http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/101/46/16369 > [...] NO ONE CARES about all this scientific research the way you do, Lawson. IMO, it's the Linus blanket you cling to in lieu of actual spiritual experience. These studies you refer to have gotten NO press in France, and probably very little in the US. The only people who really care about them are people like yourselves who follow "meditation science" as if these studies actually proved something or meant something. Believe it or not, *SOME* people in the world are actually investigating meditation because they are seeking spiritual experience, not some made-up pseudo- benefit like "stress release." And face it, dude... they are *not* likely to find what they seek in the TM movement, learning TM from "recertified" teachers who look (on the whole) as if they haven't had a decent *shit* in decades, much less a spiritual experience. :-) The people who are looking to meditation for spiritual experience are going to be drawn to those who (like the people I know in Montpellier) look as if they're actually *having* some spiritual experiences in their lives. These people smile all the time, and not with the fake smiles you see on far too many TMers and TM teachers. These folks *glow*. They have FUN. Their lives are happening, *so* happening that they're willing to work a little harder at their jobs to have the money to share the stuff they've learned with others. THAT is what students are responding to, Lawson. Get over the "science project" mentality, already. That only appeals to people who believe in science more than they believe their own eyes and ears. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
