--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <no_reply@> > wrote: > > > > Re: Paranoia as cult bonding mechanism > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: > > > > > > > >
> > Same comment i just made to Vaj. Why use lablels. And particualrly, > > why use false and inflamatory (IMO) labels. > > Obviously I don't think it's a false label. > > You and Spraig are far > > from fundamentalists or True beleivers. I have written two recent > > posts making and substantiating that point. > > Yes, and that's appreciated. (In passing, one wonders > why you're the only one here to weigh in on this.) > > > And Vaj is not an "anti-TMer", IMO, just as you are not a TBer. He > > started TM at a young age, became a teacher. He was more INTO it > > than you ever have been, it would appear to me from 3000 miles > > away. > > Not sure why that he was INTO TM at one time should > rebut the idea that he's an anti-TMer *now*. Point taken. But I think most teachers have a soft spot for TM, the old days, MMY at his peak, etc. So it can be a mixed bag. The soft spot -- and the critiques. > > Later he found other things more useful to him. He moved on. > > Fine. So have many here. > > > That he observes flaws in the TMO is not surprising. I think we all > > do. > > Indeed. But the nature, tone, and volume of his > "observations" are quite different from those of, > as you pointed out, Rick and Ken Hassman, for example. > If you can't see that, I'm at a loss. I do see a difference in tone, volume, frequency. My main point is that label hurling cause labels to be hurled back. The secondary point is the validity of labels. We may differ a bit on what "anti-TM" means. Perhaps it applies to Vaj maybe not. When I began this theme, I think I was referring to "TM-hater" which i don't think applies to any on the list at the moment. You clarified, I think, that you have not used that term. I may have picked it up from those whom you called anti-TM as a mischaracterization of what you said. > Plus which, there's the way he constantly attacks and > insults the committed TMers here, as well as his > refusal to engage in reasoned discussion on the points > he raises. The last point is quite true. Points he is questioned or challenged on, he simply diverts attention, or tries to make the challenger the problem. > And there's also his frequent misrepresentations of > what MMY teaches, which are very difficult to > understand given his claims to have been a TM > teacher. > > <snip> > > The key point being, as I interpret it (perhaps not implied or > > intended by you) is that its far more productive, for the > > discussion, readers, and posters, to focus on the points being > > made -- why they are logically, cognitively, factually valid or > > not. And its unproductive to hurl labels, and defending against > > inevitable return flurries of label insults. > > Of course it would be more productive, but you can't > *get* Vaj to focus on the points being made. Yes, I am beginning to put him in the Rory class of slipperliness -- always diverting when a point is raised about logical, cognitive or factual errors. Vaj takes it to an new level, turning the tables, insulting the questioner, taking high airs of condesention "well, if you don't GET it ....", etc. For example, he implied the totally bonkers poistion that some alleged parallel between fundamental and christian fundamentalism in and of itself makes Spraig and you TM fundamentalists. I have used this as an example of Vaj Logic -- and have repeated asked him to address this apparent huge gap of logic. The non sequitur supremo. He has diverted here, darted there, insulted this, condescended that, ridiculed the question and questioner, spoke volumes, then has the balls to say he doesn't have the time to address the point. I love this list for the examples of cognitive, logical and factual errors that people present, and often vigorously cling to. Vaj has been a great find, a great add to my library of bizzare logicos. > It's fine to draw a moral equivalence where reciprocal > "hurling of labels" is concerned, but not if you neglect > to point out where it *starts*. More important, IMO, where it ends. To me its like what is the first car on the freeway. It can't be determined, there is always another one ahead of you. Or perhaps like a tissue box, pull one and there is always another. Or any long term conflict. Each side can make a case that the other started it. Long ago. But in the peaceful, intervals, I do see some start something. Throw out uncalled for barbs. They "started" it - the current battle -- not necessariluy IT -- the 10 year war. I have found in life, the best way to diffuse such is to "let it go", turn the other check so to speak. Though admittedly, at times its is fun and interesting to pursue some logical train or odd cognitive interpretation to understand the inner workings of some. > My sense of Vaj (and Barry) is that the only reason > they're on this forum (and previously on alt.m.t) is > because they want a platform from which to denounce > TM/MMY/the TMO. There are plenty of other forums on > which they could discuss the spiritual paths they're > on now with a much more receptive, and in many cases > even more knowledgeable, group of participants. > People all have their reasons. I know when people have suggested why I am here, it is so odd and bizzare -- one has to guess projection -- that I am quite catious in imputing others' motives for a particular psot, or for being here. My core answer is, "past causes". ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
