--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin"
> > <jflanegi@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning
> > <no_reply@> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> > "jim_flanegin" <jflanegi@> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > You are getting sucked into the conventional
> > wisdom regarding 
> > > how to 
> > > > > measure stuff like consciousness. 
> > > > 
> > > > i am not getting sucked into  anything. I have
> > not stated my 
> > > views. 
> > > > 
> > > > I am simply pointing out that the TMO and MMY
> > has a cleary 
> > > different
> > > > view than you on the physiological correlates of
> > higher states, and
> > > > what those higher states are -- and their
> > manifest attributes in 
> > > the
> > > > physiology of the liberated one.
> > > 
> > > MMY also? Are you sure of that?
> > > 
> > > > > While each state of awareness is 
> > > > > physiologically distinct, I am not convinced
> > each can be 
> > > measured by 
> > > > > today's scientific instruments.
> > > > 
> > > > Clearly you are not. MMY and the TMO clearly
> > are. 
> > > 
> > > Again, MMY also? You cannot prove that. Her
> > appears to converge 
> > > towards the instruments, but has never stated
> > unequivocally that 
> > > higher states can be measured with today's
> > instruments.
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > Don't know about "today's instruments, but Fred T.
> > seems to believe that there are some 
> > clearcut physical changes that can be measured, and
> > that these changes explain things 
> > pretty nicely. Here's the clearest statement by MMY
> > that I am aware of concerning this 
> > topic . I found it as a quote in one of the early
> > SIMS/IMS publications:
> > 
> > 
> > Spiritual and Material Values
> > 
> > "Every experience has its level of physiology, and
> > so unbounded awareness 
> > has its own level of physiology which can be
> > measured. Every aspect of life 
> > is integrated and connected with every other phase.
> > When we talk of 
> > scientific measurements, it does not take away from
> > the spiritual 
> > experience. We are not responsible for those times
> > when spiritual experience 
> > was thought of as metaphysical. Everything is
> > physical. Consciousness is the 
> > product of the functioning of the brain. Talking of
> > scientific measurements 
> > is no damage to that wholeness of life which is
> > present everywhere and which 
> > begins to be lived when the physiology is taking on
> > a particular form. This 
> > is our understanding about spirituality: it is not
> > on the level of 
> > faith --it is on the level of blood and bone and
> > flesh and activity. It is 
> > measurable."
> > 
> > -Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
> > 
> > 
> > What is fun is that you can actually SEE the
> > possible correlation between MMY's description 
> > "Every aspect of life is integrated and connected
> > with every other phase," and what is 
> > found in standard physiology textbooks. If Fred is
> > correct about the thalamus issue, then 
> > the normal waking/dreamingfunctioning where sensory
> > input of some kind is always going 
> > on has been sidestepped--literally. There are an
> > amzing number of connections in the 
> > brain between virtually all parts of the brain, but
> > the activity of these connections may well 
> > be secondary to sensory input--except during
> > samadhi/TC. Here's a standard diagram 
> > showing a few of the main connections of the parts
> > of the brain, aside from the sense-
> > related ones:
> > 
> > http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus751.html
> > 
> > In samadhi "every aspect of life is integrated and
> > connected with every other phase..."
> > 
> > In CC, this is integrated with normal awareness.
> 
> This is an asinine comment, but it is an extremely
> complex subject! It's not as simple as it first
> appears.
> 

What isn't as simple as it first appears?





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