--- In [email protected], hermandan0 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > trying to follow new.mornings posting inspirations, i've started a new > thread instead of intjecting this into the old one :) > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > --- In [email protected], "vajradhatu108" > > <snip> > > > Any meditation technique that relies on a object > > > of meditation, a mantra, the breath, etc. will by > > > it's very nature have some subtle effort (as Mahesh > > > acknowledged at Estes Park in regard to TM).* > > > > Of course, it's never been established that what he > > said at Estes Park ever "acknowledged" any such > > thing. > > > > I'm not sure exactly what the Estes Park quote is, but Maharishi was > quite clear that there is some "doing" in the thinking/picking up of > the mantra and that, yes, this is a contradictory to the mantra just > appearing on its own. That's why the the instruction to think or pick > up the mantra is qualified by saying "effortlessy" or "as effortessly > as a thought comes". Of course one is thinking and of course thinking > is doing. It may be an effortless doing, but it's a doing. > > While it may not be fair to dismiss TM as being a technique of > "effort" on account of that, vaj is, IMO, not incorrect in calling it > "subtle effort" becaue of that doing. To misunderstand this puts one > in the position of a meditator I once encountered who asked "What > happens if you sit there for the entire 20 minutes and the mantra > doesn't come?" Duh. >
I would swear that I saw a tape in which somebody asked MMY that very thing and he said something to the effect of, well, then that's just the way it is, there's nothing to be done. (Though every teacher or checker I later told that to said he couldn't have said that.) I think the person's mantra wasn't coming without an amount of effort that seemed to be too much. I've used to have that "problem" myself a lot, and I would end up sometimes sitting there for most of 20 minutes without, it seemed, even a glimmer of a mantra. Also, it seems to me that the contradictory nature of the meditation is an essential element of it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
