--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > trying to follow new.mornings posting inspirations, i've started a new > > thread instead of intjecting this into the old one :) > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "vajradhatu108" > > > > <snip> > > > > Any meditation technique that relies on a object > > > > of meditation, a mantra, the breath, etc. will by > > > > it's very nature have some subtle effort (as Mahesh > > > > acknowledged at Estes Park in regard to TM).* > > > > > > Of course, it's never been established that what he > > > said at Estes Park ever "acknowledged" any such > > > thing. > > > > > > > I'm not sure exactly what the Estes Park quote is, but Maharishi was > > quite clear that there is some "doing" in the thinking/picking up of > > the mantra and that, yes, this is a contradictory to the mantra just > > appearing on its own. That's why the the instruction to think or pick > > up the mantra is qualified by saying "effortlessy" or "as effortessly > > as a thought comes". Of course one is thinking and of course thinking > > is doing. It may be an effortless doing, but it's a doing. > > > > While it may not be fair to dismiss TM as being a technique of > > "effort" on account of that, vaj is, IMO, not incorrect in calling it > > "subtle effort" becaue of that doing. To misunderstand this puts one > > in the position of a meditator I once encountered who asked "What > > happens if you sit there for the entire 20 minutes and the mantra > > doesn't come?" Duh. > > > > > I would swear that I saw a tape in which somebody asked MMY that very > thing and he said something to the effect of, well, then that's just > the way it is, there's nothing to be done. (Though every teacher or > checker I later told that to said he couldn't have said that.) I > think the person's mantra wasn't coming without an amount of effort > that seemed to be too much. I've used to have that "problem" myself a > lot, and I would end up sometimes sitting there for most of 20 minutes > without, it seemed, even a glimmer of a mantra. >
In the early 70's, a TM teacher had to check a recently returned Vietnam vet. She said it took her the entire checking session to get him to keep his eyes closed more than a second or so. She never got past that stage with him. Obviously, in some situations, for some people, the usual procedures and predictios just don't apply. > > Also, it seems to me that the contradictory nature of the meditation > is an essential element of it. > I think that its not a contraiction so much as a non-rational thing. You can't discuss it and it is silly to even try (which is what we're doing in this thread: being silly). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
