--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > trying to follow new.mornings posting inspirations, i've started a new
> > thread instead of intjecting this into the old one :)
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote:
> > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "vajradhatu108" 
> > 
> > <snip> 
> > > > Any meditation technique that relies on a object
> > > > of meditation, a mantra, the breath, etc. will by
> > > > it's very nature have some subtle effort (as Mahesh
> > > > acknowledged at Estes Park in regard to TM).* 
> > > 
> > > Of course, it's never been established that what he
> > > said at Estes Park ever "acknowledged" any such
> > > thing.
> > >
> > 
> > I'm not sure exactly what the Estes Park quote is, but Maharishi was
> > quite clear that there is some "doing" in the thinking/picking up of
> > the mantra and that, yes, this is a contradictory to the mantra just
> > appearing on its own. That's why the the instruction to think or pick
> > up the mantra is qualified by saying "effortlessy" or "as effortessly
> > as a thought comes". Of course one is thinking and of course thinking
> > is doing. It may be an effortless doing, but it's a doing.
> > 
> > While it may not be fair to dismiss TM as being a technique of
> > "effort" on account of that, vaj is, IMO, not incorrect in calling it
> > "subtle effort" becaue of that doing. To misunderstand this puts one
> > in the position of a meditator I once encountered who asked "What
> > happens if you sit there for the entire 20 minutes and the mantra
> > doesn't come?" Duh.
> >
> 
> 
> I would swear that I saw a tape in which somebody asked MMY that very
> thing and he said something to the effect of, well, then that's just
> the way it is, there's nothing to be done.  (Though every teacher or
> checker I later told that to said he couldn't have said that.)  I
> think the person's mantra wasn't coming without an amount of effort
> that seemed to be too much.  I've used to have that "problem" myself a
> lot, and I would end up sometimes sitting there for most of 20 minutes
> without, it seemed, even a glimmer of a mantra.
> 
> 
> Also, it seems to me that the contradictory nature of the meditation
>
Exactly, it is a paradox. Like a koan.
 is an essential element of it.
>







To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
    mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 



Reply via email to