--- In [email protected], "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Vaj writes: > Actually he says you must *conquer* ("jayAt") samyama. This is > because samyama is mixed with chains of dhyana and dharana. It is > considered "external" to seedless samadhi. Seedless samadhi only > occurs when the triad of samyama is not present. > > Tom T: > Chapter and verse please. I would like to verify this claim. Thanks Tom >
See YS 3.3-3.10 Vaj likes to take a single translation that fits his notions about what MUST be the ase. That's fine. I like to look at several different translations and intuit how they fit in with what MMY says and taught me. There's no way to prove who is correct about this, despite what Vaj claims, until such time as perfect mastery of the sidhis is demonstrated in a labratory setting. Samyama involves subtle fluctuations of the mind. The sidhis take place at the most subtle level, but they are still fluctuations. That doesn't mean that seedless samadhi doesn't happen during sutra practice, just that the sidhis aren't manifest during that state (how could they be since sidhis are a relative, intentional thing?). Seedless samadhi is turiya, what Vaj likes to call the "fourth pranayama." But there is NO characteristic of the fourth. That's why nothing is said of it. Specifically, YS 3.8 says: http://www.bindu.freeserve.co.uk/yoga/yogasutra/ys3_comments.htm#sutra3.3 YS 3.8 tadapi bahiraïgaü nirbãjasya tad -this; api - even, same, as well; bahiþ - external; aïgaü - limb; nirbãjasya - contemplation without seed Translations: [B] These last three limbs must themselves be seen as external compared to contemplation without a seed. [D] The state where the mind has no impressions of any sort and nothing is beyond its reach (nirbãja samàdhi) is more intricate than the state of directing the mind towards an object (samàdhi). [F] Yet, they are outer limbs (bahir-anga) [in regard to] the seedless [ecstasy]. [H] That also is (to be regarded as) external in respect of nirbãja or seedless concentration. [R] Even that is non-intimate to the seedless. [S] Even these three are external to the seedless samadhi. [T] Even that (Sabãja samàdhi) is external to the Seedless (Nirbãja samàdhi).
