On Jan 8, 2007, at 11:23 AM, sparaig wrote: > --- In [email protected], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> On Jan 8, 2007, at 10:36 AM, sparaig wrote: >> >>> --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jan 8, 2007, at 9:07 AM, sparaig wrote: >>>> >>>>> <tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlist@> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Vaj writes: >>>>>> Actually he says you must *conquer* ("jayAt") samyama. This is >>>>>> because samyama is mixed with chains of dhyana and dharana. It is >>>>>> considered "external" to seedless samadhi. Seedless samadhi only >>>>>> occurs when the triad of samyama is not present. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom T: >>>>>> Chapter and verse please. I would like to verify this claim. >>>>>> Thanks Tom >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> See YS 3.3-3.10 >>>>> >>>>> Vaj likes to take a single translation that fits his notions about >>>>> what MUST be the ase. >>>> >>>> No actually when I studied the YS it was looking at the 24 most >>>> authoritative commentaries from the POV of the lineage of >>>> Patanjali. >>>> >>>>> That's fine. I like to look at several different translations and >>>>> intuit how they fit in with >>>>> what MMY says and taught me. There's no way to prove who is >>>>> correct >>>>> about this, despite >>>>> what Vaj claims, until such time as perfect mastery of the sidhis >>>>> is demonstrated in a >>>>> labratory setting. >>>> >>>> Actually we were talking about Vyasas's comment. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Samyama involves subtle fluctuations of the mind. The sidhis take >>>>> place at the most subtle >>>>> level, but they are still fluctuations. That doesn't mean that >>>>> seedless samadhi doesn't >>>>> happen during sutra practice, just that the sidhis aren't manifest >>>>> during that state (how >>>>> could they be since sidhis are a relative, intentional thing?). >>>>> Seedless samadhi is turiya, >>>>> what Vaj likes to call the "fourth pranayama." But there is NO >>>>> characteristic of the fourth. >>>>> That's why nothing is said of it. >>>> >>>> There is quite a lot said on this is the supplementary texts. It's >>>> very detailed and does require an authentic master of that >>>> tradition >>>> to properly explain it. >>>> >>> >>> Of course, YOU have found such a master, while MMY isn't... >> >> I've been very fortunate and no Mahesh is not a yogic Master, >> although he is advertised as such and tries to dress the part... :-) >> > > Of course, you've spoken with people like Anoop Chandola, whose > uncle was part of the > group that selected Swami Brahmananda Saraswati to be > Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, > about what at least SOME of that gorup think of MMY, right? You > spoke directly with Swami > Shantananda like Anoop did? You spoke with Swami Vishnudevananda > about MMY like Dr. > Jay Coplin did? > > Yeah, you know ALL about MMY and what he is or isn't...
Thanks I have all the evidence I need, had it years ago and I've talked to all the people I need to. For me this was a closed issue years ago. I realize it's still vital for you, but you have to understand many (most?) of us have already moved on. Best of luck with your path.
