--Re: Vaj says that Tibetan Buddhist yidam worship is not "really" god worship and therefore (a) is dissimilar to Hindui worship - being part of "wisdom" oriented sadhana.(b) doesn't fall under the scrutiny of Sam Harris' attacks on faith-based religion. Nope, factually incorrect since the Green Tara provides a counterexample to the sole motive of the quest for wisdom. The Green Tara can/is worshipped in Tibetan Buddhism for the expressed purpose (aside from the acquisitionof wisdom); of the attainment of material wealth, better health, eradication of all types of bad karma (and those types of bad karma specifically mentioned in a long shopping list: such as snake bites, boils, zits, etc...you name it (clearly items beyond the scope of pure "wisdom".) Overall, Green Tara worship is supposed to offset bad karma on a global scale as well as on a personal level. Thus, Tibetan Buddhist teachers have the same types of motives behind such worship as many motivated Hindus in their worship, even though such Deities are not called "gods" per se in Tibetan Buddhism. OK, yidams. Also, there are many Hindus who are mostly into the "wisdom" aspect of Deity worship and would consider it beneath them to pray for material benefits. Thus, to be consistent, the Harris/Vaj criticism of god worship would have to include a good slice of Buddhism. Since Harris claims to be a Buddhist, doesn't make him (and Vaj) somewhat hypocritical?
- In [email protected], "tanhlnx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > ---Vaj, you're not making sense. Regardless of the purpose, yidam > (god) worship is all the same, call it what you want; but much of > Tibetan Buddhism is similar to the god-worship of the Hindus. Even > the iconography is similar, say Mahakali vs the same Mahakali in > Hinduism; Ganesh worship in both religions. There are countless > Hindus who regard these "gods" as "wisdom-enhancing" focal points; > just as in your erronous rendition of Buddhism. > > > > In [email protected], Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: > > > > > > On Feb 22, 2007, at 8:57 PM, coshlnx wrote: > > > > > Actually, Harris is critical of god worship only in the context > of > > > faith-based religious assumptions; and states that (something > like > > > this) is OK in his world-view: "When I meditate on Jesus, I feel > an > > > ecstatic Spiritual epiphany, and therefore you should try it". > That's > > > an experiential type of statement that can be tested to a certain > > > extent; since other people can follow up on the recommendation > and try > > > it for themselves. > > > > And of course, such an experiential approach similar to this might > be > > compatible with Buddha-dharma, albeit with a number of caveats. > > > > > > > > But the idea of no-god-worship doesn't even make sense in the > context > > > of Buddhism since Tibetan Buddhism > > > > In regards to Tibetan (or other types of Buddhism) this is a false > View. > > > > > (apart from some Gurus like Vaj's > > > Chogyal Norbu Rinpoche); is heavily involved with god-worship; > i.e. > > > the > > > Tibetan Buddhist counterpart of the gods: yidams or whatever. > There's > > > Chenrizig, the Green Tara, the White Tara, MahaKali, numerous > Dharma > > > protectors, etc. > > > > But if these are worshipped as gods, then it isn't really Buddha- > > dharma, sorry. Now if they are used for Wisdom-consciousness > > realizing emptiness, that's a different story. But a yogin > > worshipping a god or gods or goddesses is not part of the ethic of > a > > mantra Bodhisattva. > > > > Even in the outer tantras (e.g. kriya-tantra) where this may > appear > > to be the case, that is certainly not the intention nor is it the > > correct View of the practitioner. > > >
