--- In [email protected], "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On second thought, don't bother consulting Wikipedia, as apparently > someone with no understanding of Latin has revised it inaccurately >>
So you are saying that Wikipedia is not a reliable source. All those interested please note: Rory is correct here, Wikipedia is not a reliable source. <<to > support your "secular" stance since I first gave the link. They did > forget to take out the line which says, correctly, "The word seclorum > does not mean "secular", as one might assume, but is the genitive > (possessive) plural form of the word saeculum, meaning (in this > context) generation, century, or age." >> Which has no references to substantiate this dubious translation of 17th century understanding of Latin. Very amatuerish source without references. > > However, the new editor has then completely contradicted this correct > statement by -- after removing the reference to Dan Brown's > mistranslation of the phrase -- adding incorrect data like > the "Saecularis = Saeclorum" material you've posted here. I can > certainly understand the political motivation behind such a > mistranslation, as I too believe the "Founding Fathers" (not sure > where the Founding Mothers stood) were probably following a Masonic > rather than a Christian blueprint for this nation, but that's no > excuse for bad scholarship, is it? :-)>> Correct again Rory. Your "scholar" on Wikipedia actually states: ''Saeculum'' did come to mean "world, worldly" in late, Christian, Latin, and "secular" is derived from it, through ''secularis''. He is correct here, the founding fathers would have thought of it as meaning "secular", and that is obvious to scholars, but he doesn't use any references. That is why I use proper references ! !!...unlike your Wikipedia pseudo-scholar: c.1290, "living in the world, not belonging to a religious order," also "belonging to the state," from O.Fr. seculer, from L.L. sæcularis "worldly, secular," http://www.etymonline.com/index.php? search=secular OffWorld > > --- In [email protected], "Rory Goff" <rorygoff@> > wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], off_world_beings <no_reply@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > Actually, your own quote states: "Secular" -- from the > > adjective > > > > > Saecularis: "worldly, secular, of the age" > > > > > > > > > > In other words it means "secular" also. > > > > No, SAECULARIS means "secular" and SECLORUM means "of the ages". > > > > > > > Saecularis MEANS "worldy", "secular", so what is the dispute? > > > > See above; SAECULARIS means "secular" and SECLORUM means "of the > > ages." > > > > > > > > The phrase is NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM, not NOVUS ORDO SAECULARIS. > >>> > > > > > > Lol....You were the one that compared it to SAECULARIS , not me. > > > > > > > > > > SECLORUM means "of the Ages," or "of the Centuries," whereas if > > > they had meant "Secular" they would have used SAECULARIS.>>> > > > > > > It does not mean 'of the ages' and the seal's designer, Charles > > > Thomson, wrote that the words "signify the beginnings of the New > > > American Era." > > > > Yes, the literal translation is "A New Order of the Ages." Feel > free > > to learn or re-learn Latin and see for yourself, or just take my > word > > for it, or check out the Wikipedia link I gave you before. Here it > is > > again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novus_Ordo_Seclorum > > > > > And according to your our own quote which states: > > > "Secular" -- from the adjective Saecularis: "worldly, secular, of > > > the age" > > > > > > In other words it means "secular" also. > > > > No, *only* SAECULARIS means "secular," SECLORUM means "of the > ages." > > I was pointing out how it would be easy to confuse the two words, > > given their similar sources, but it would still be a mistake to do > > so. > > > > > Seclorum means Saecularis which MEANS "worldy", "secular", so > what > > > is the dispute? > > > > No, SECLORUM does *not* mean SAECULARIS. SECLORUM (noun, possessive > > plural) means, literally, "of the Ages," and SAECULARIS (adjective) > > means "worldly, secular." Again, feel free to take my word for it, > or > > learn Latin for yourself, or consult Wikipedia regarding its > nuances > > of meaning and its origins in Virgil's Eclogues: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novus_Ordo_Seclorum > > > > I've said all I have to say on this subject, ad infinitum et ad > > nauseam :-), and so this will be my last post on the subject of > Novus > > Ordo Seclorum. > > > > I am in agreement with you on Judy! > > > > *L*L*L* > > >
