--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jul 25, 2007, at 5:20 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > I'm just sayin' that there is a big "red flag" > > > > raised for me when someone believes one of their > > > > "stories" so completely > > > > > > And Jim was just sayin' that the nature of > > > enlightenment is such that it falls outside the > > > category of "stories," something of which you're > > > apparently not aware. > > > > And I *understand* that some people believe this. > > I do not. Neither do spiritual traditions such > > as the Tibetan one Vaj mentioned. > > > > I am a strong believer in enlightenment, and I > > believe that the experience of it should be under > > exactly the same scrutiny and subject to the same > > analysis as any other experience, if not more. It > > isn't "exempt." > > It's interesting Herbert Benson, before he went on to verify the > tummo siddhi in a number of advanced yogis (and also the remarkable > side-effect that their metabolic rate greatly dropped) he tested a > bunch of westerners who all claimed to have the same level of tummo > (heat yoga) realization. It turned out although all of them were > convinced they had achieved this realization, in fact none of them had. > > So in some cases sceince can be used to verify certain claims of > realization. It just happened in this case that their was a by- > product that was easily measurable (heat). > > I believe at least one of the people claiming enlightenment in FF was > tested by the TMO, but still, no cigar. > > Nonetheless they were obviously convinced they were! > To continue this absurd belief that enlightenment can be "proven" somehow by external objective testing is, imo, one more way to keep eternal freedom at arms length. The ego loves these kinds of "tests" and "criteria", because it gives it the endless ability to escape its own demise.
It might help to keep in mind that prior to enlightenment, all seekers are slaves to their notions of seperateness, of uniqueness, of aloneness, of ownership of their thoughts and actions. To come up with endless, and I do mean endless, challenges to "prove" enlightenment is a sad and pathetic way to perpetuate this slavery. The point the enlightened always try to make is that none of this matters, that the only thing that matters is humility and surrender to that which will truly set you free, whether it comes from something read on a box of cereal, a Buddhist, Hindu, Christian text, a random thought, the living words of a knower of Reality, or the inner conviction to do whatever it takes to listen quietly to your own inner voice of freedom, and act on it. There is no ownership, self-aggrandizement, ego trip, or power trip associated with the words of the enlightened. These are all coverings that the ignorant in their fear place upon such words. So continue to choose; be a little pretzel in a twisted little pretzel world, or decide that total freedom is the only thing worth settling for. Your choice. Your path. Your life.:-)
