See -- you two are further connected, through Monkee.  If you leave her behind, 
she'll have lost both of you.
 
Diane R. (can you see what my impulse would be? ;-))
 
 
________________________________

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:51 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Question about outdoor cat


Yes,..she actually loved Monkee.  She never narrowed her eyes at him or hissed. 
 She truly liked him.  Over time they became buds thru the barrier of the porch 
between them and I really felt she conforted him and provided him company in 
the last months of his life when he wanted to do nothing but sit on the porch 
by himself- with her at the front door.  He would paw at the male cats under 
the front door and huff and puff at them, but he never did to her.  I think he 
had a crush on her!  She is the cat that would follow us around when Monkee 
went for walks on the leash and she was with us at the last walk (his first and 
only true leash-less walk b/c with the anemia, he wasn't going anywhere) he had 
a few days before he passed where all he really did was lay in the street 
pretending he was one of the colony cats...with Lil Girl nearby.  She also 
showed up in the early morning hours (she sleeps under my car a lot), when I 
took Monkee out of the house in his carrier eventually after he died and she 
got to say goodbye.  I wanted her to smell that he wasn't with us any more.  
She's my outdoor bud.  I found two tiny dead baby snakes on my property this 
summer at separate times (it broke my heart, poor things) and I buried them in 
the front yard and Lil Girl "helped" me.  But I got distracted from Lil Girl 
because I took in Izzee- who was living in a crate in a garage- and then the 
sick kittens, and I had to make quick decisions to help other cats who needed 
me more immediately...knowing that I was only further complicating and delaying 
the ultimate decision of what to do about Lil Girl when I move!
-Caroline     




________________________________

        Subject: RE: Question about outdoor cat
        Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:32:10 -0500
        From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
        To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
        
        
        Carolyn, you never really know with cats, but MAYBE some of Lil Girl's 
Queen Bee attitude would dissipate once she got inside
        because in THAT hierarchy she's the new girl in town.  Then again, 
maybe not, but it does happen.  Also, if you take the time to 
        go through the socializing protocols from step one -- caging, food 
association, spending time, etc., and introduce the others to her
        while she's still in the (mutual) safety of her cage, maybe she will 
learn to coexist.  I only have the experience of our former feral Fred, 
        but in her case, there was never a cage but a room to herself, for 
months and months, with my housemate and I coming in 
        nightly with food and conversation (we read her the 100 Best Fantasy 
and Science Fiction Stories ;-)).  Coincidentally, the room has 
        a gaping hole where the doorknob should be, so she could easily hear 
the sounds of the house, and there was a large gap at the 
        bottom of the door where she would play patty-paw with the others long 
before they met face to face.  When we finally opened the
        door to them, it was so completely a non-event, most of them just gave 
her butt a little sniff and then went over to check that her food 
        wasn't any better than theirs.  
         
        I dunno, I think her barging in and making herself at home so soon 
after Monkee died was, well, kind of a sign, don't you, really?
         
        Diane R.

________________________________

        From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline 
Kaufmann
        Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 2:52 PM
        To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
        Subject: RE: Question about outdoor cat
        
        
        Well, that is how my Monkee eventually became.  He was living outside, 
but likely belonged to someone before (he was neutered).  But Lil Girl is 
different because she's not afraid of even ONE thing!  So she definitely 
doesn't have that timid, scared feral thing going on.  Monkee was afraid of 
people and especially men for a long time.  And actually, if she was more 
afraid, my mom and I might be more confident about me taking her b/c we know 
how to manage that.  But as she is, her personality...we fear she might just 
continue to run roughshod over everything and everyone if we take her in!!!  
She looks at my foster kitties with utter distain from the front door!  I 
swear, she glares at them and narrows her eyes like they are just stupid little 
lunatics (which, they are!).  But I don't want her terrorizing my mom's cat and 
my sweet foster cat Izzee- who's become such a wonderful cat since I took the 
kittens in.  I really don't want to do anything that would "offend" Izzee or 
upset her!  After Monkee died and I had no cats for about a week, Lil Girl came 
busting into my house and on my front, screened porch!  Just marching around 
investigating like she owned the place.  She clearly has no fear and she just 
has that personality- you can just tell-- of "I'm going to do what I want to do 
when I want to do it!"  I've joked to my mom that maybe I will just scoop her 
up and put her in my mom's backyard- at least temporarily!  But my mom fears 
she will make the "incredible journey" back to her neighborhood/colony 
instinctively....?  We feel like we just don't know anything about 
colony/outdoor cats like her and don't feel confident in our abilities to make 
a decision I guess?
        -Caroline  
        
        
        

________________________________

                From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
                To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
                Subject: RE: Question about outdoor cat
                Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:31:45 -0400
                
                

                TAKE HER!  I was feeding my Romeo for 2 years before I brought 
him inside.  I did so only because the temperature was going to below zero and 
the creeps whose house he lived under boarded up his access so he had no 
shelter.  It took a few weeks of him in a large kennel in my bedroom propped up 
on some boxes.  Initially, I put his box and his food dish in there & covered 
all but two sides with a sheet.  Then I started leaving the door to the kennel 
open and putting his food on the floor just below.  Then I brought him to the 
bathroom around the corner in the kennel to show him where I was moving the 
litter box to.  He started eating/going to the box only when nobody was in the 
room or at night when he thought I was asleep.  But sure enough, one day he 
went out while I was in the room on my computer and jumped on the bed he'd been 
eying!  Sure enough, that did it.  Once he found the creature comforts there 
was no turning back!  He rarely sits at the window or tries to go out-sort of 
looks at the other guys like they're nuts for wanting to go out!  He is the 
absolutely most affectionate cat I've ever had.  BUT, the one thing I still 
can't do is actually pick him up.  He'll sit on my lap (or on my chest when I 
try to sleep!) but squirms out real fast if I try to pick him up.  Vet visits & 
crating are real tough so I have to keep that to an absolute miminum

                 

                Sooo, this little one has already staked you out as hers!  I 
say take her; keep her in a big wire cage with some increasing freedoms and 
watch her become a big mush!

                 

                From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
Caroline Kaufmann
                Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:17 PM
                To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
                Subject: OT: Question about outdoor cat

                 

                This is my final question I promise.  But it's been looming 
over my head for a long time now and it's really distressing me.  I know I have 
told you all that my street has neighborhood 24/7 outdoor cats that technically 
belong to a lady a few houses up from me.  But all the neighbors kind of look 
after them and some feed/keep water out.  The lady who brought them to the 
street "rescued" them from her sister- whom she said wasn't taking care of 
them- the sister had not spayed/neutered.  She got connected with one of the 
local agencies and had them all fixed for a discount (she is low income).  She 
already has five indoor cats so these cats became outdoor cats.  Almost all of 
them have clipped ears (except one) that show they have been fixed.  Some of 
them started out as indoor/outdoor and then I guess found they liked being like 
colony cats better so they pretty much stay out year round.  She has a front 
porch where she has boxes set up for them in the winter, etc.  They are all 
male, except for one.    
                 
                I started feeding them too myself when I moved to the street 
over a year ago because I didn't know the situation- were they homeless, etc.?  
I finally got the whole story.  There is one, a little girl who I call, "Lil 
Girl" who pretty much has re-transplanted herself to my property.  I treated 
her for tapeworms and I have been giving her Advantage thru the summer.  I was 
worried about her being so small, even tho she's about 5 yo, so I kept feeding 
her quality food to beef her up, even after determining her sort-of home 
situation.  But now she is a permanent resident pretty much at my front door.  
She is there every morning waiting for me and in the evening. It so sad because 
I do not own my house and my landlord needs his house back and I am moving the 
weekend after next.  I don't know what to do?  The other outdoor cats who I 
feed are just occasional visitors-- they will be fine without me and I will 
have a talk with all the neighbors about calling me if something happens and I 
was going to leave a couple bags of expensive, quality food with the lady up 
the street to feed them, etc.  I know I will stop by a lot to check on them 
because I am very tied to the neighborhood by exercise classes I attend, etc.  
But I am really upset about the Lil Girl.  I can't tell if she just hangs out 
with me and at my house JUST BECAUSE I feed her and she likes my food better or 
because she likes me?  I worry about the effect of my leaving on her?  She'll 
be waiting for me the next morning and I won't show?  My landlord is allergic 
to cats and I doubt he will be feeding them (I have to have a talk with him 
about at least being nice to them tho and letting him know they will be at the 
door for a while until they "figure it out."  He's young and a hippy/nature 
person, so he will be cool about it, he just won't be the cat-person that I 
was).  But everytime I think about Lil Girl, I just want to cry.  She's 
beautiful, but she's a top banana- she's runs roughshod over the much larger 
outdoor boy cats- three and 4 times her size!  It's already going to be crazy 
enough at my mom's house trying to integrate my declawed Izzee with my mom's 
hissing, scratching Tally, my mom's new Humane Society dog who doesn't like 
Tally/cats and is still trying to kill Tally (they are working on it) and then 
my three crated foster kitties!  Ironically, I think the foster kitties will 
have the smoothest transition!  They don't ask for much!  My mom and I have 
gone round and round about what to do about Lil Girl b/c my mom likes her too 
and worries about her.  Before I got the foster kittens, I thought about taking 
her with me.  I'm pretty sure the lady up the street would let me have her b/c 
that would be one less mouth....but I don't know if Lil Girl could become a 
house cat?  Would she be happy, or is there some colony-cat psychology that I 
would be interfering with?  I fear she would kill Izzee and Tally given the 
chance-- or at least beat them up.  Lil Girl is not feral tho- I can pick her 
up and hold her- tho it's not her fave thing.  She seems to just "perfer" to be 
outside, so it's like she's somewhere in between, so she presents such a 
problem for me!?
                 
                I just don't know what to do?  I need advice!  Reassurance?
                 
                -Caroline 

                
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